Mussolini Escapes to Spain

Historically, ex-Italian dictator Benito Mussolini was close to Switzerland when he was captured by partisans. Apparently he was supposed to fly to Spain from there.
What might have happened to him had he escaped detection? Would Franco hand him over to the Allies after, presumably, being pressured? Franco seems too practical to me to risk such a thing, but I'm no expert.
What are your thoughts?
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
He will be extradited and Franco will act sooner to curb/expel/disavow what few potent Falangists remain in his regime. World War II in Europe was very clearly a war against fascism, and you cannot have the fountainhead of that ideology running free in the aftermath, even if he runs somewhere neutral. This sort of criminal must be brought to justice by any means necessary.

If he isn't gotten by the allies first, some Italians get him. Maybe Reds, maybe some mafiosi still upset over the Fascist conquest of Sicily.
 
He will be extradited and Franco will act sooner to curb/expel/disavow what few potent Falangists remain in his regime. World War II in Europe was very clearly a war against fascism, and you cannot have the fountainhead of that ideology running free in the aftermath, even if he runs somewhere neutral. This sort of criminal must be brought to justice by any means necessary.

If he isn't gotten by the allies first, some Italians get him. Maybe Reds, maybe some mafiosi still upset over the Fascist conquest of Sicily.

I think you're being far too optimistic. He could simply claim Benny is not in Spain, keep him hidden and that's the end of the story.
 
I think you're being far too optimistic. He could simply claim Benny is not in Spain, keep him hidden and that's the end of the story.
Unless they keep him in a bunker or something, Allied intelligence will soon expose this.
 
Is Franco really stupid enough to risk it? Pavelic is one thing, but the leader of one of the greatest Axis powers and Hitler's BFF is something else entirely.. I mean, it should be pretty obvious that keeping dear Benny around isn't exactly the best way to make friends with the West and that doing so would provide him with no benefit at all, while handing him over to the Americans is a great way to get them on his side. Surely he's not going to keep Il Douche around purely out of sentimentality, to thank him for his support during the Civil War, even though all Realpolitik tells him to get rid of the bastard?
 
The Allies wanted Franco dead by the end of the war, and they were looking for just about any reason to have a justification to march an army up and into Spain and destroy the bastion of fascism that got away, people are too quick to assume the Cold War mentality that later prevailed that "he hates communists so he is our friend", when in reality that only came much later and Franco's immediate standing with the Allies in the postwar environment was one in which he and the regime he created was really quite precariously balanced.

Franco did seem to have a way of knowing when to fold them (the extent of this wisdom is entirely between whether or not one believes Franco ever seriously considered joining the Axis).

Sheltering the man who is effectively the model of the first European fascist state is not the way to go about this, Franco survived to die in old age rather than before a firing squad because he had at least some sense not to do things like this.
 

Cook

Banned
What might have happened to him had he escaped detection?
If he escaped detection, I imagine Mussolini would disappear into one of Spain’s numerous remote monasteries; to retreat from the world and contemplate what a fickle mistress fate is and to write his memoirs. Sometime in the 1960s an abbot comes forward with a document that was produced by a reclusive member of his monastery who had left a request that it be published after his death. Once handwriting experts have verified it as genuine, it proves to be the Magnum Opus of one of Europe’s most influential political thinkers of the first half of the twentieth century.

If he didn’t escape detection, doubtless Franco would hand him over to the Allies.

I’ve always been curious as to how Mussolini expected to get from Switzerland to Spain?
 
Franco welcomes Mussolini at a private airfield, gives him a hug and a fascist salute, pops him in a limousine with a smile and a wave and orders the (armed) driver to head for the American embassy.

Franco was aided by Hitler and Mussolini. He let Spanish volunteers head to the Eastern Front. He had fascists in his government. He also maintained his position until 1975. He is not dumb enough, emotional attachment aside, to risk hiding a man the United States, Soviet Union and pretty much every nation in Europe, wants in front of a firing squad.

He was a pretty smooth operator, risking his position at a time when a UN invasion of Spain on the grounds of clearing fascism from Europe wasn't unimaginable, simply because he thinks Mussolini is a swell guy (and I'd like to read proof of that, because its not a given) is stupid. Very un-Franco.

Mussolini on trial is interesting in of itself though. Does he go to Nuremberg? Actually did any Italians end up in Nuremberg or an equivalent? Would the Kingdom of Italy prosecute him?
 
Is it possible that Franco doesn't take him in, but sends him somewhere where hie could hide out indefinitely? Say... Brazil? It would be an interesting story to have a 1960s far-left Italian group send a hit team to bring Mussolini, who has been working as a schoolteacher in a quiet neighbourhood in Sao Paulo, to justice, Eichmann-style. Enter 1980s action sequence :D
 
Franco welcomes Mussolini at a private airfield, gives him a hug and a fascist salute, pops him in a limousine with a smile and a wave and orders the (armed) driver to head for the American embassy.

Franco was aided by Hitler and Mussolini. He let Spanish volunteers head to the Eastern Front. He had fascists in his government. He also maintained his position until 1975. He is not dumb enough, emotional attachment aside, to risk hiding a man the United States, Soviet Union and pretty much every nation in Europe, wants in front of a firing squad.

He was a pretty smooth operator, risking his position at a time when a UN invasion of Spain on the grounds of clearing fascism from Europe wasn't unimaginable, simply because he thinks Mussolini is a swell guy (and I'd like to read proof of that, because its not a given) is stupid. Very un-Franco.

Mussolini on trial is interesting in of itself though. Does he go to Nuremberg? Actually did any Italians end up in Nuremberg or an equivalent? Would the Kingdom of Italy prosecute him?

The few Italian war criminals who were tried were tried by military tribunals or the Italian courts. Borghese was tried by an Italian court for collobaration but not war crimes.

I could see a scenario like Cook proposed if no one knows he is in Spain/Switzerland of Mussolini hiding away in some monastery or eventually moving to South America either Argentina or Brazil where he could blend in with the Italian community. He'll have to grow his hair out but he could probably disappear for a few years.
 
The Allies wanted Franco dead by the end of the war, and they were looking for just about any reason to have a justification to march an army up and into Spain and destroy the bastion of fascism that got away, people are too quick to assume the Cold War mentality that later prevailed that "he hates communists so he is our friend", when in reality that only came much later and Franco's immediate standing with the Allies in the postwar environment was one in which he and the regime he created was really quite precariously balanced.

Sorry, no.

Stalin wanted Franco dead. Roosevelt and Truman were ambivalent and Churchil was against it.

Obviously, Franco wasn't going to take Stalin into consideration, so it boils down to what do the UK and USA do. Do they really care that much about Mussolini? Enough to consider armed intervention?

If pressed I see Franco quietly telling Mussolini to leave on a boat to Argentina and become someone else's problem. If pressed much, much more I might even see him allowing Mussolini to be arrested by some foreign secret service and smuggled out of the country. I might even see him being formally detained and "repatriated". Now, arresting and trying him in Spain?

Nice joke. What is he going to accuse him of? Destroying Italian democracy? Imperialism in Africa? :rolleyes:
 
Is it possible that Franco doesn't take him in, but sends him somewhere where hie could hide out indefinitely? Say... Brazil? It would be an interesting story to have a 1960s far-left Italian group send a hit team to bring Mussolini, who has been working as a schoolteacher in a quiet neighbourhood in Sao Paulo, to justice, Eichmann-style. Enter 1980s action sequence :D

I would watch that.


Red Brigade III: Lair of the Beast!
 
If Mussolini escapes into Switzerland, I would imagine some fascist sympathizers in Switzerland would find a way to get him into Spain (And I imagine that the Swiss would probably turn a blind eye if bribery is involved). If Mussolini gets to Spain from there (Likely by plane, identified as being from a neutral country), I imagine that Franco would shelter Mussolini, at least temporarily. Franco, despite probably being one of the smarter dictators in the 20th century, would probably have some admiration for the man and shelter him in a monastery somewhere in Southern Spain.

I imagine that once things settle down and the Cold War starts up (Probably 1948-1950 range), Franco would probably have Mussolini smuggled into South America, likely in Brazil or Argentina. Mussolini grows facial hair and probably loses a lot of weight over the years, so he will probably look a bit different, and isn't as notable as Hitler in South America. Now, Mussolini had multilingual skills. He could speak Spanish, French, English, and German alongside with his native Italian, so I could imagine he would probably return to teaching in a small and obscure town while writing his memoirs.

If Mussolini isn't caught, he'd probably die by the 1960s, and his death would probably be found out by the late 1960s or early 1970s as his memoirs he has been writing are published. We get a more in depth account than he already gave (In his memoirs, My Rise and Fall, written during his rise to power as well as during his final days), so we can probably have a better understanding of his actions. I imagine though that if Mussolini lived, fascism might be a bit stronger, especially if he has new writings published after his death.

Of course, this all assumes that he isn't arrested at the airport in Switzerland or isn't turned over by Franco upon landing.
 

Cook

Banned
Was there an organised means of getting from Switzerland to Spain or did the plan only go so far as getting over the border? He’d been in Milan trying to negotiate his surrender to the CLNAI on the 25th of April, so I really don’t think the plan had been worked out in any detail beyond getting across the Swiss border.
 
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