Muslim World: The True Faith Timeline

Heh, the Pope is somewhat (as @krieger said) a Primus Inter Pares since Kosmos is there to mess up with papal supremacy, though of course, there's compromises, to levy support Kosmos officially renounced and denounced iconoclasm (the root for the East-West schism) and gave some patronization (not supremacy, ok?) to the Pope, so it's kinda a mixed bag. But yeah, we'll see some pagans converting to Christianity, and my surprises are exactly about that hehe, just...look to the middle ;).


The British Islands probably will be an exception, though they still will recognize the "central authority" of Christianity, though by now they are having some serious problems about bishops, as the british rulers are enjoying lack of papal meddling to just...put whoever they want at the bisphorics.
I didn't deny it, I stated that they would pay at least lip service to Papacy and Council though they would have a lot of autonomy stemming from isolation. Rulers would probably impose something resembling OTL gallicanism on church in Isles. I highly doubt that Christanity would be able to advance as high as OTL in Northern Europe.
 
Catholic-Orthodox split has nothing to do with Nicea. Nicea was the moment of Catholic-Arian split, but at the time of POD arianism wasn't prominent nowhere, especially not in the Eastern Roman Empire. Catholic-Orthodox split happened in 1054, when Pope and Patriarch of Constantinople excommunicated each other. Said split is very unlikely to happen ITTL, even with ongoing civil war in Byzantine Empire. Kosmos, residing in Italy automatically cripples Papal claim to supremacy - IOTL, Popes benefited from decay of any secular political power in Italy and Kosmos being there automatically annuls this event. And Frankish support also played a considerable role in Pope becoming head of Western church, and now Frankish kingdom is gone, replaced by Faransa which is anything but friendly to Pope. ITTL, most logical direction of development of the Church, is Pentarchy where Patriarch of Rome is primus inter pares. Christians would need to unite in the face of Muslim threat. Britain might be an exception, but they'd just have weird liturgy and customs, while recongizing supremacy of Pentarchy and Council.
I think that in Muslim lands Christian churches will move towards autocephally and "national" churches. Muslims rulers will make patriarchs and other church leaders vassals to them, and force such churches to cut ties with foreign churches from Christian realms. IIRC when the Ottoman Empire took Constantinople they replaced the standing Patriarch, who was seeking union with Rome to get help, with the most anti Catholic candidate they could find.
 
Also what will exactly happen in to the British Isles. Also will the Vikings still settle in Normandy I mean Muslim Normans sounds pretty fun.
The normans could become to Faransa what the turks were to the abbasids.
Oh, i want soooooo much to spoil the Viking Age things but..........i will control myself and don't spoil it. Just know that great things will happen by that matter (mainly because the ukhawias literally just have the "woah where we'll go beside the sea?"), so a cool dynamic will be seen, but the OTL vision that the Viking Age ended at 1066 will be of course wrong, because the Viking Age will last considerably longer than OTL (well into the 12th century). And remember, the ibrahimites are still there...
 
Oh, i want soooooo much to spoil the Viking Age things but..........i will control myself and don't spoil it. Just know that great things will happen by that matter (mainly because the ukhawias literally just have the "woah where we'll go beside the sea?"), so a cool dynamic will be seen, but the OTL vision that the Viking Age ended at 1066 will be of course wrong, because the Viking Age will last considerably longer than OTL (well into the 12th century). And remember, the ibrahimites are still there...
Umm, Bakhyia is there and that is a nice buffer the Faransi will enjoy(thanks Ibrahimites) and depending how fast Faransa adopt the heavy calvary/knight/Furūsiyya that means how easily they would repel those pirates...wait a minute..would the vikings(ie danish,swedish,et al) become Ibrahimites..that is something Faransa(specially the christians) would go 'oh shit' as the last thing they need is a navy...that would be fun at least...and there England, maybe after the nordic pirates see faransa a nut too hard to crack goes hellbend into england early?
 
I think that in Muslim lands Christian churches will move towards autocephally and "national" churches. Muslims rulers will make patriarchs and other church leaders vassals to them, and force such churches to cut ties with foreign churches from Christian realms. IIRC when the Ottoman Empire took Constantinople they replaced the standing Patriarch, who was seeking union with Rome to get help, with the most anti Catholic candidate they could find.
Yes, but I was referring to remaining Christian lands.
 
This is waay before a Great Schism and both Churches are one. Islamic threat would enforce more unity between them. With an exception of Britain, who would remain isolated and most likely adopt a weird mix of Celtic and Roman Christianity.
Maybe we should stole the other thread idea of the weird mix of nordic paganism with christianity...
 
Maybe we should stole the other thread idea of the weird mix of nordic paganism with christianity...
Say something like yazidism? But instead of mixing kurdish paganism, zoroastrian concepts and islam, a mix of roman/celtic christianity with elements of nordic paganism? But how?
 
Oh, i want soooooo much to spoil the Viking Age things but..........i will control myself and don't spoil it.
God, please spoil us! I can barely contained my fanboyism to see wether or not Vinland Saga is here in this timeline.


.and there England, maybe after the nordic pirates see faransa a nut too hard to crack goes hellbend into england early?
Its easier to unify poeple under one common external threat. Askelad would have an easier way to worm his way into top food chain of England with Wales backing as 'King Arthur' or through puppet.

Viking will bring chaos and destruction with raids on England. And Chaos is the ladder.

Hey @Talus I of Dixie, have you watch Vinland Saga yet?
 
God, please spoil us! I can barely contained my fanboyism to see wether or not Vinland Saga is here in this timeline.



Its easier to unify poeple under one common external threat. Askelad would have an easier way to worm his way into top food chain of England with Wales backing as 'King Arthur' or through puppet.

Viking will bring chaos and destruction with raids on England. And Chaos is the ladder.

Hey @Talus I of Dixie, have you watch Vinland Saga yet?
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, y'all will have to control yourselves, because i'll not spoil viking things :p, but if it serves as consolation, we're arriving at the beggining of the Viking Age, so you'll not need to wait for too long ;)

And actually not, i haven't watched Vinland Saga lol.

@Nivek @EnvarKadri so, just saying that TTL Scandinavia will be, heh, complicated, this is all i have to say for y'all.
 
The Age of Collapse: Chapter 7
Muslim World - The Age of Collapse
Germania After the Franks I: The Short Bavarian Hegemony


The Reign of King Odilo the Great (741-747)
With the fall of Francia to the west, Duke Odilo of Bavaria quickly mobilized forces to take advantage, marching with an army of 14.000 soldiers against the lands of Alemannia, resulting in his victory against the numerically inferior forces of Duke Theudebald of Alemannia at the Battle of the Hall [1], and subsequently the establishment of his domain in Swabia, as Theudebald fled with the rest of his army across the Rhine setting up shop in Alsace and converting to Islam, ensuring good relations with the local authorities.

After expelling Theudebald, Duke Odilo would have to spend an entire year campaigning against swabian rebels, who were somewhat intolerant of converting to Christianity, forcing Odilo to convert the tribes by the sword and also effectively establishing his rule over the region, however, the Rhaetian Dukes of Cuira [2] were given significant autonomy in their domain over alpine territories in exchange for their loyalty to the Bavarians.

With his problems in the west - partially - resolved, Odilo turned east, where Carantania [3] was having trouble against avar incursions in the region, and soon, Prince Borut would ask for help from Odilo, who proceeds to help and defeat the avars, subsequently causing the conversion of Borut and several of his people to Christianity, and they becoming vassals of Odilo.

With these victories secured, Odilo would return to Regensburg, where Athalwolf, one of his noble allies, had spent Odilo's absence by eliminating rival noble and establishing influence over the young heir to the throne, Tassilo. Athalwolf would gain even more influence after Odilo's coronation as Rex Bavariae in 744, with the subsequent revolt of the bavarian nobles allowing Athalwolf's faction almost absolute support, including from Prince Borut, who took part in suppressing the rebellion.

Now-King Odilo and Athalwolf put support for the creation of the dioceses of Krinsgád and Graschïk [4] in the country of the Carantanians, with the objective of establishing a permanent missionary force in the country, much requested by Prince Borut. Pope Zachary [5] sanctioned the creation of the dioceses, placing them under the control of Boniface [6], who had settled in Konstanz after the fall of Francia, this is also how the creation of the Archbishopric of Konstanz occurred, overseeing all of Germania [7].

With Boniface's help, Odilo participated in the establishment of several monasteries in Swabia, particularly to help him control the region, and permanently convert it to the Christian faith, in addition to being a good way to neutralize his enemies. Soon, benedictine monasteries spread across Swabia, helping in the (real) conversion of local pagans.

With the death of King Odilo in 746, Tassilo became King Tassilo III, and Athalwolf was quickly confirmed as the regent of the 5 year old, beginning his "reign" in Bavaria.

Athalwolf's "Reign" (746-757)
Athalwolf's Hegemony started well, with relative prosperity occurring thanks to the (somewhat) stabilization of Italy in the south during the Byzantine Civil War, allowing for an increase in transalpine trade (controlled by Bavaria) even with Wasatbahr's pirates at work.

The first important thing that occurred in those years was Borut's death in 748, with him being succeeded by his son Gorazd, who would soon rule until 751, when he died in a battle against a avar raiding party, being succeeded by his brother Hotimir, who would raise the first church in Krinsgád and, more importantly, would have a great participation in bavarian politics.

Athalwolf's main act during those times was to go on campaigns against avar and germanic raiding parties, in addition to the patronization of Boniface's missions, which tried to convert the germans further north, eventually he would be killed in 756 by the Frisians of Bakhyia [8], with Athalwolf managing to push the nomination of his son, Theudfried, as Archbishop of Konstanz [9].

Athalwolf paid close attention to the thuringian migration towards Franconia, as this threatened the balance of power among the franconian chiefdoms, in addition to his own influence around the areas around Würzburg, thanks to his control of the Archbishop. He would intervene in 755, winning the Battle of Karlstadt [10] against a thuringian army, guaranteeing his control over the region around Würzburg and probably affecting the thuringians' decision to cross the Rhine.

But for the Bavarians, the thuringian migration was just an inconvenience, the real threat would come in 757. With the migration of slavs towards the Danube, primarily the Czechs and Moravians under avar sovereignty, forcing Athalwolf to stop everything he was doing and put together a army to stop such a movement, the military campaign against the slavs would result in the Battle of Nickepal [11], where Athalwolf was defeated by the forces of a Czech Knyaz named Ljubomir, which would have great repercussions in the future, with the slavs managing to settle in the region and demand tribute from Athalwolf in exchange for not raiding Bavaria.

The Decline and the Fall of Athalwolf (757-767)
In addition to his prestige and strength being weakened, Athalwolf had to make the decision to withdraw his capital from Regensburg (as it is so close to the border with the Slavs) and move it to Augsburg. It is after the defeat at Nickepal that the first noble conspiracies against the power of Athalwolf begin to gain strength, giving boldness to the now greater opposition. All this time, Hotimir was analyzing the situation as a outsider, waiting for the right moment to attack, or in his case, revolt.

In 760 there was the last revolt among the swabian Alemanni, where the rebels just were not able to siege Athalwolf in Augsburg on account of nobles loyal to Athalwolf breaking the rebellion, but the situation had clearly deteriorated. However, Athalwolf saw one last opportunity to reaffirm himself as absolute governor of Bavaria (and also to eliminate the Alemanni from Alsace) in the Franco-Thuringian invasion of Faransa, and soon mobilized an army (also relying on carantanian levies) to invade Alsace in aid to the Franco-thuringians.

Initially everything was (surprisingly) very easy, although the local Alemanni threatened their supply lines, Athalwolf had done away with the Banu Thywdhbāl and was by a victory against the muslims to have almost completed his entire mission. However, the decision to rush to the aid of the Franco-Thuringians to gain their confidence (and eventually subdue them) [12] made it possible for Nabeel to ambush Athalwolf at the Vosges, and the rapid collapse of his efforts west of the Rhine, resulting in a even greater loss of prestige for Athalwolf.

Soon after returning defeated to Bavaria in 765, everything went out of control, with Hotimir finally revolting against Athalwolf and a group of noble opponents abducting Tassilo III to start their own Augsburg-based revolt. There was a brief civil war, where Athalwolf was defeated thanks to the decisive participation of the Carantanians, who would subsequently ensure their independence.

By 767, Bavaria had re-emerged under the rule of Tassilo III (now independent-ish) and Berthold, a noble advisor who led the efforts against Athalwolf. Hotimir lost his status as a bavarian vassal and Archbishop Theudfried was allowed to keep his lands in exchange for recognizing the fall of the Athalwolf government and "collaborating with the system".

At the same time, the Czechs took Regensburg and what was left of the land on the other side of the Danube, slowly starting a conflict that would last for generations, rulers and states alike [13], inspiring future cultural separations between the nations of Dütschland and Slovenija, stay tuned.

This is the first of three chapters covering post-frankish Germania, the next chapter will be about Bakhyia and Saxony, and all the mess going on there. And the other is about the Wends, where we'll see, well, how all this shit happened from a more detailed POV.

Any questions or comments are welcome ;)
[1]: Schwäbisch Hall, Germany
[2]: Chur, Switzerland. They basically control a land similarly shaped as the roman province of Rhaetia, though it's more centralized on the alpine territories as the lowlands are subject to direct bavarian control
[3]: A Slav Principality in the territories of OTL Austria and surroundings, they are alpine slavs akin to the Slovenians
[4]: Maria Saal and Graz, Austria. If you think "wtf this just looks slavic fairly germanized" it's because it is ;)
[5]: The same from OTL, though in a completely different context, as you soon see, Italy was briefly a mess after the fall of the franks
[6]: Saint Boniface, though for him the Fall of Francia certainly was a great shock, he have more work to do, especially with all the mess that Germany now is
[7]: Replacing OTL Archbisphoric of Mainz, that was created with the same background (i.e being Boniface's episcopal see)
[8]: He tried and tried, but the Bakhyians really dislike christians heh, so he was murdered :v
[9]: Yep, this is high nepotist bullshit, but at least Theudfried is, in fact, a religious man, so...could be worse i think. Ah, and thanks to this nepotist bullshit the Archbishops of Konstanz rule some lands around Lake Constance.
[10]: Karlstadt an Main, Germany
[11]: Germanization of the name "Německé Pole", transliterated, "German Field"
[12]: He still have a great ability in making political machinations, and he trusts such ability way too much
[13]: Guess what...We're seeing some of TTL historical trends developing right now
 
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I really want to know how Bakhyia will turn out have you worked on their language yet? And are we going to see a christian Germanic state centered around Bavaria?
 
the same time, the Czechs took Regensburg and what was left of the land on the other side of the Danube, slowly starting a conflict that would last for generations, rulers and states alike [13], inspiring future cultural separations between the nations of Dütschland and Slovenija, stay tuned.
Well they keeping their more nativist name in english equivalent show the titanic butterflies we've..and seems Slovenia will be bigger..maybe the ITTL Austria?(the Cislethania side with the adriatic mostly) can we keep Faransa as Faransa too?

Well Nordic Pirates come next them.

Not serious question but watching fate make me wonder what will be the Joan of Arc equivalent ittl, if anything would end up being an ibrahimite...:v

I really want to know how Bakhyia will turn out have you worked on their language yet? And are we going to see a christian Germanic state centered around Bavaria?
For all christian fans..well there your christian kingdom
 
I really want to know how Bakhyia will turn out have you worked on their language yet? And are we going to see a christian Germanic state centered around Bavaria?
1. Eh, i still didn't work on their language, but soon i'll be working on that.
2. Yeaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, christianity won't be dead as you may see
Well they keeping their more nativist name in english equivalent show the titanic butterflies we've..and seems Slovenia will be bigger..maybe the ITTL Austria?(the Cislethania side with the adriatic mostly) can we keep Faransa as Faransa too?

Well Nordic Pirates come next them.

Not serious question but watching fate make me wonder what will be the Joan of Arc equivalent ittl, if anything would end up being an ibrahimite...:v
Heh, you nearly guessed it right, because yeah, will be a slavic state in OTL Austria, but it won't be Slovenia, the slovenes are separated from the carantanians, still, i'd want to leave clear that ITTL Slovenija refer to the slavic nations in general, something like the concept of "Slavia" (though they aren't united). And well, Faransa will always be Faransa in our hearts (our hearts = standard arabic and the majority of arabic dialects) ;)

I didn't thought about a Jean d'Arc analogue until you pointed it out lmao, but anyway i have to see if it is even possible, heh
 
How far west will the Slavs migrate also will they be be Muslim or Christian. On a unrelated note what are your plans for Africa will we see any major African states on the world stage like for example a mega Mali or A christian East Africa that bases their cultures around Ethiopia?
 
How far west will the Slavs migrate also will they be be Muslim or Christian. On a unrelated note what are your plans for Africa will we see any major African states on the world stage like for example a mega Mali or A christian East Africa that bases their cultures around Ethiopia?
Well, at least for now they're arriving at a westward limit, but things can always happen...

And yes, we'll see major players in the global stage from Africa, you always can count on the Niger Basin for that kind of global player, but me being me, i want to have some surprises. At least for the near future Ethiopia is really screwed though...
 
It's an excellent update. I have nothing to ask about what was covered in it, because it explained the reaction of every single actor around the Bavarians. I have to thank this timeline for forcing me to learn early medieval europe history, because at the start of this I have little idea of what was going on, I was constantly "who is that?" "where is that?". But I had a blast in wikipedia. Before, my knowledge started around 1066 (yep, Crusader Kings :winkytongue:).It's weird seeing an europewhere most of the modern state and ethnic actors of the next 1000 years where just being born.
 
It's an excellent update. I have nothing to ask about what was covered in it, because it explained the reaction of every single actor around the Bavarians. I have to thank this timeline for forcing me to learn early medieval europe history, because at the start of this I have little idea of what was going on, I was constantly "who is that?" "where is that?". But I had a blast in wikipedia. Before, my knowledge started around 1066 (yep, Crusader Kings :winkytongue:).It's weird seeing an europewhere most of the modern state and ethnic actors of the next 1000 years where just being born.
Oh, it's very great to know about that, when i started this i didn't think that i would be capable of making someone learn something, so it's a great achievement for me, i'm constantly learning by writing it too, actually i know much more about this period than when i started TTL.

Cool stuff about islamic heraldry https://www.medievalists.net/2011/06/islamic-heraldry-an-introduction/ . And a particular european muslim style of heraldy: the andalusian https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Coat_of_arms_of_the_Nasrid_dynasty . It add the shield typical of western heraldry to the typical arabic emblem. Euro muslim dynasties may use something similar.
Hoh, i'll give a look into it, will certainly be helpful for the future. Thanks!

Also, i'll use this post to thank everyone for reading this timeline and encouraging me to continue with it, i can say that at least i have a base of readers that always will be here for updates, so thank y'all for making the progress of this TL possible :happyblush.
 
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