Muslim World: The True Faith Timeline

from who? that is still pagan and Poland is too busy in the east, more would be rebellion and nations fragment along the other side of the rhine...
The uymayed caliphate was tolerant just 12 years of occupation won't make chirstianity go away
A palaguis like figure for the Frank's could appear
And since paleguis did succeed in this ATl there is more reason as to why some Frankish noble could be inspired by him
 
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Can the caliphate even hold this much land at this point them try to take over central Asia would be borderline ASB and suicidal. Look all far they are In Europe at best I think their borders should be at the Rhine. And how after this war could they manage to Fight a seven year war against China. Sorry but at this point this timeline is starting to look like a Abbasid power fantasy.
True but like many said the early Islamic conquest
Usually the further your spread faster the faster fragmentation

The tang conflict can actually make the perfect opportunity for the western provinces to break apart

In terms of that I don't see the conquest going further even with a massive civil war for the Romans
They have proven that they can survive
The 20 years anarchy was a horrible period yet the caliphate still couldn't take the ERE
 
Moving on to warn you that i'm already working on the next chapter, wait for it tomorrow or today later. I was in a writer's block on this timeline :p, but i recovered after an effort yesterday :cool:
 
Can you please hand the Caliphate its first major defeat. It would be much more interesting then a never ending stream of Victories for the Caliphate.
 
Don't worry! China will teach these boys a lesson ;)
Are you setting up a Rice of Salt like world divided between Islamic and East Asian cultures? Also what Is going on with the Anglo Saxons and the Norse will they convert to islam too? Or will their be some sort of Christian rebellion in the Caliphates European land?
 
Are you setting up a Rice of Salt like world divided between Islamic and East Asian cultures?
Basically, yes :winkytongue:

Also what Is going on with the Anglo Saxons and the Norse will they convert to islam too?
The Anglo-Saxons and the Norse will have a interesting fate, and with interesting fate, i say rebels crossing the borders and some snowmen saying "hello" in Paris ;)

Or will their be some sort of Christian rebellion in the Caliphates European land?
The christians had been mostly quiet (after all they're not being persecuted), but the Ibrahimite Rebellion will make the numbers of christians in the caliphate go down :rolleyes:

So, don't expect a christian rebellion for now, but the ibrahimite (or, outright anti-christian) influence in Al-Faransa eventually will lead to rebellions :biggrin:
 
So will Europe be Islamic in this time line or will their be some Orthodox states in the east? Also what will the fate of India be.
Well, the plan of the TL is to europe be as islamic as possible, so......:rolleyes:

India will be the same of OTL, muslims invading, hindus emerging to kick muslims back to their places, and this process repeating itself.
 
I'm guessing that Islam will to reform to be more accepting of the converted culture rather than try and shove Arab-influenced rules and written language down.
 
Switch it up a bit have India be fully converted and have some Europeans put the Muslims in their place.
This is something that i would like to do, but there are some points that make me think it would not be plausible:

1. The resistence of Hinduism, trust me, don't is a religion easy to break
2. The political history of India, until the division India-Pakistan, religion don't was a great thing (in political terms) in India AFAIK, this prevents that islamic rule turn to be islamic religious expansion
3. The most safe christian nation are the British Isles. But a Al-Faransa independent can easily just invade it. The rest of Europe or is christian but have literally a muslim dagger at their throat or is pagan
4. Don't matter how, always will emerge a hindu power to challenge the muslim invaders (Vijayanagar, Marathas, etc)

I'm guessing that Islam will to reform to be more accepting of the converted culture rather than try and shove Arab-influenced rules and written language down.
Islam proper will reform, european schools of islamic law also will emerge with time, also, shi'a will gladly make this to conquer more converts :rolleyes:
 
This is something that i would like to do, but there are some points that make me think it would not be plausible:

1. The resistence of Hinduism, trust me, don't is a religion easy to break
2. The political history of India, until the division India-Pakistan, religion don't was a great thing (in political terms) in India AFAIK, this prevents that islamic rule turn to be islamic religious expansion
3. The most safe christian nation are the British Isles. But a Al-Faransa independent can easily just invade it. The rest of Europe or is christian but have literally a muslim dagger at their throat or is pagan
4. Don't matter how, always will emerge a hindu power to challenge the muslim invaders (Vijayanagar, Marathas, etc)



Islam proper will reform, european schools of islamic law also will emerge with time, also, shi'a will gladly make this to conquer more converts :rolleyes:
I’m pretty sure we will get like 3 schools of Islamic Law from Europe that’s gonna dominant. I also expect more efforts toward reform, Qurans in multiple languages and so on.
 
I'm guessing that Islam will to reform to be more accepting of the converted culture rather than try and shove Arab-influenced rules and written language down.
Depend. You see.....
*look at indonesian for worshipping "Queen of Sunda Sea and the description of the creature that Prophet rode in Israk&Mikraj have female head*
People can get too "creative" to cook up some weird shit. Especially when said people arent finishing their study properly. Muktazillah, Qadiyani everyone?
Islam proper will reform, european schools of islamic law also will emerge with time,
also expect more efforts toward reform
Define 'reform'. Such subject cannot be treated lightly. *stannis the mannis mode: on*

Although i wonder what european school look like and it name. Does that mean this ATL have 5 Sunni school instead of OTL 4?
shi'a will gladly make this to conquer more converts :rolleyes:
Which sect, to be percise? I'm not jealous whoever got cleaning duty on Karbala Day.:rolleyes:
Qurans in multiple languages and so on.
Which must be handled with care. Different language, different grammar, different tone, different meaning.
 
Depend. You see.....
*look at indonesian for worshipping "Queen of Sunda Sea and the description of the creature that Prophet rode in Israk&Mikraj have female head*
People can get too "creative" to cook up some weird shit. Especially when said people arent finishing their study properly. Muktazillah, Qadiyani everyone?

Define 'reform'. Such subject cannot be treated lightly. *stannis the mannis mode: on*

Although i wonder what european school look like and it name. Does that mean this ATL have 5 Sunni school instead of OTL 4?

Which must be handled with care. Different language, different grammar, different tone, different meaning.
Well, most of Europe is Christianized, or at least the parts the Calphate control besides the pockets of pagans and so on. I reckon we will get a Norse mythology-insinpired Islam in Scandinavia, maybe some much mroe influence by Sami and Finnish myths and even one infljenced by Baltic mythology.

And reforms meaning which makes it more accessible in how Christianity was compred to Judaism.

Alot of languages and meanings to be sure, but it will probably go a similar route to how it happened with Christianity.
 
Depend. You see.....
*look at indonesian for worshipping "Queen of Sunda Sea and the description of the creature that Prophet rode in Israk&Mikraj have female head*
People can get too "creative" to cook up some weird shit. Especially when said people arent finishing their study properly. Muktazillah, Qadiyani everyone?
:p What about a norsefied islam? I was just thinking on that

Define 'reform'. Such subject cannot be treated lightly. *stannis the mannis mode: on*

Although i wonder what european school look like and it name. Does that mean this ATL have 5 Sunni school instead of OTL 4?
5 or 6, around it. With reform i say, a more adaptation to the euro-arab contact, and it change A LOT of things, the specifics i still have to think about
 
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Prologue: Chapter 21
Muslim World

Just The First Defeat? The Dragon Burns The Blacks in the Aksu River!

April 4, 745 - Aksu River
Since the beginning of the Third Fitna, the chinese Tang Dynasty have taken advantage of the civil war to increase their influence on Transoxiana. Nevertheless, once the abbasids established control in the region, the fighting began, with the abbasids managing to defeat the Chinese in Chach [Tashkent] and Farghana [Fergana], re-establishing control of the former province. However, the chinese would not abandon it. Next year, an army of 76.000 Chinese would enter muslim territory and advance, toppling city after city. An army of 42.000 men under Ziyad ibn Salih was sent by the abbasids to repel the invasion, meeting with the chinese on the Aksu River.

Ziyad organizes his army in the abbasid standard mode, archers in the rear, arab cavalry on the flanks, and the bulk of infantry on the front line. The chinese army positions light infantry units on the flanks with the chinese cavalry next to the infantry in the center, turkish karluk cavalry is on the left flank, and the archers in the center as well.

The first move came from the chinese, with the karluk cavalry and the chinese light infantry using their numerical advantage to cross the river on the left flank, the karluk cavalry crosses the river in front of the arab cavalry to lure it into battle, opening the abassid right flank to the light infantry, that soon seeps into the hole left to attack the abbasid rear, while the bulk of the chinese infantry begins to cross the river and battle with the outnumbered arab force.

The chinese light infantry, however, is taken aback by the archers in the rear and repelled by them, retreating under heavy fire back to the river with heavy casualties. While the arab cavalry on the left flank crosses the river and quickly drops the chinese light infantry in the region, the Tang send reinforcements to the region after the news, but the arab cavalry had already advanced to maneuver behind the mountains ahead, which leaves the abbasid left flank open for the reinforcements, which soon cross the river and attack the archers in the rear together with the karluk cavalry, with the archers being easily massacred, the abbasid rearguard is free for the chinese cavalry, which completely destroys the abbasid forces together with the chinese infantry.

By the end of the day, the abbasids had lost most of their army and the chinese would march freely across Central Asia, winning the upper hand against the abbasids in the region. The great defeat would echo throughout the Abbasid Caliphate, with many questioning the establishment of the new caliph, leading to the 746 Ibrahimite Rebellion. The Abbasids would send more armies to Central Asia that could lessen the losses, but the chinese would have the upper hand in the region until 755, when the An Lushan Rebellion would force the chinese to retreat from Central Asia, freeing the area for muslim and tibetan expansion.
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Sidelines

July 19, 744: Kosmos' forces follow their victory at Katerini and attempt to make a advance to Constantinople. But is severely defeated by Voedos' forces at the Battle of Chariopolis, ending any chance of a quick resolution of the conflict, the war would be deadlocked for the next 3 years after the battle, with neither side having the upper hand.
October 3, 744: After a brief siege, 14.000 soldiers under Sulayman recaptured back Antioch taking advantage of the byzantine distraction in his civil war, a campaign is also underway to conquer the Principality of Abasgia (a byzantine vassal), but it would take 2 years to complete.
May 28, 745: Following the overwhelming defeat at Aksu, the Caliph immediately orders an army of 54.000 troops to be sent to Central Asia under Abu Muslim. With the news of defeat spreading, a christian rebellion begins in Al-Anadul, which is brutally repressed.
September 5, 745: Uqba falls ill in Qurṭuba, the conqueror of Al-Faransa would die ill five months later, his burial would be held in the city, and more than 50.000 people would attend. He would be until present-day one of the national symbols of Al-Andalus.
October 19, 745: With news of the Caliph's defeat echoing throughout the muslim world, the wealthy pirates of Malta declare the Ukhawia of Wasatbahr, recognizing the caliph's theocratic power but at the same time having full temporal power over their lands. Upon learning this, the abbasids prepare a fleet to bring the islands back to abbasid control.
November 23, 745: The Great Raid of Tripoli, a wasatbahrian fleet raids and severely damages the abbasid fleet in Tripoli, in addition to capturing many of the harbour's assets. The attack forces the Caliph to delay (and unofficially cancel) the attack on Malta, and it becomes another blow to the Caliph's prestige.
February 19, 746: The First Ibrahimite Rebellion begins! The Eighty-Seven of Al-Hafar. (Next Chapter ;))
 
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Which must be handled with care. Different language, different grammar, different tone, different meaning.
Do what we do OTL, the original arabic, the 'transliteration' and the official(either Saudi or turkish) translation in either language, at the time before printing press, the oral tradition help, them when priting press come...that is far different

Still is easier to learn the Qu'ran hearing it that reading...
 
Regarding the future development of an "european islam" keep in mind that the intelectual traditions we now asociate with the west were not even born as concepts before the ilustration or were minority and dissident currents competing against more prestigious traditions of thought. Also Islam is as regionaly flexible and diverse (specially early on) as christianity. Even today places like the Maghreb hold local sufis as "saints" capable of miracles dispate this being frowned upon by sholars. Sharia law was still in it's infancy and was quite flexible, in fact I would say that it only got more "political" and rigid only after being displaced by secularism in the 20th century, kinda like how most modern Christian Churches seems obsess with gay marriage and abortion, after losing so much ground in society they became recalcitrant in the few areas they keep influence. In medieval times they had legal obligation in almost all areas and jurist spent much time with matters of inherence, solving disputes among neighbors, punishing petty criminals, etc. Having to deal with wordy matters most of their time demanded a lot of pragmatism from the jurists, thats why things like rational interpretation by the jurist (Ijtihad) and local customs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urf) were also taken into account when the Quran and the consensus of the ulema didn't work or offer a solution to a problem. Also, in contrast to catholicism, ulema were under the authority of the local monarch and completely dependent on the state, without the financial and political autonomy of the Catholic Church. Taking into account the flexibility and regional variety of sharia in the world (even more in those earlier centuries of the"golden age" since islamic jurisprudence was still being developed, hell, the 4 most important madhhabs were still yet to be born! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madhhab) is safe to say that sharia wouldn't bother medieval europeans much outside the obvious bias they would suffer if they had a legal conflict with a muslim. The most likely source of conflict seem to be the schools of theology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schools_of_Islamic_theology), for example in this period the Mutazila were creating quite a commotion, and of course the many Shia groups.
As far as legal as theological thought goes it seems that islamic thought in this era was far more sophisticated then in Western Europe, and it's not a surprise. After the fall of the W. Roman Empire cities lost power and wealth, falling the lands to feudalism and the rural world becoming the center of power. I am not saying that early medieval Europe was the dung ages but compared to muslim states and the Easter Roman Empire it was quite unimpressive. Aristotelian and platonic ideas were incorporated in islamic and orthodox Christian theological and philosophical discussions quite early on while in western christianity they had to wait to the 10th or 12th centuries for the apparition of medieval universities so that system slowly incorporated Aristotelian thought. So this idea that Islam is in desperate need to "reform" in order to gain a place in Europe in anachronistic as hell. In this era while, while the most divisive thing in christian theology were the discussions regarding how much divine or human Jesus was, in Islam the discussions between the earlier schools and movements were around the role of reason and analogy in laws and legal authority and how much free will did mankind have.
If the idea is that islam stoped changing after the 10th century and the " Gate of Ijtihad" was closed is up to discussion but what is well know is that the the consensus of the scholars (Taqlid) consolidated in that period was already under questioning by the 16th and 17th centuries:
"During the turn of the 16th to 17th century,
Sunni Muslim reformers began to criticize taqlid, and promoted greater use of ijtihad in legal matters. They claimed that instead of looking solely to previous generations for practices developed by religious scholars, there should be an established doctrine and rule of behavior through the interpretation of original foundational texts of Islam—the Qur'an and Sunna." And it was never officially closed in Shia islam.
The real point where the muslim world started to fall behind to Western Europe was more in the second half of the 18th century, once Europe started to change FAST and HARD with things like industrialization, the rise of the bourgeoisie as the dominant social class, modern army and state bureaucracy organization, etc. And the muslim world was not the only region of the world that failed to "catch up with the west". If muslim states experience successfully the same socio economic transformations that happened in Western Europe in the 18th and 19th centuries then Islamic Modernism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Modernism) and scholars like Sayyid Ahmed Khan, Jamal al-din Al-Afghani, and Muhammad Abduh can become the mainstream.
Also keep in mind that the first complete translation of the Quran to Persian predates the first complete translation of the Bible to an European language that any living people actually spoke. "The first fully attested complete translations of the Quran were done between the 10th and 12th centuries in Persian language. The Samanid king, Mansur I (961–976), ordered a group of scholars from Khorasan to translate the Tafsir al-Tabari, originally in Arabic, into Persian. Later in the 11th century, one of the students of Abu Mansur Abdullah al-Ansari wrote a complete tafsir of the Quran in Persian. In the 12th century, Abu Hafs Omar al-Nasafi translated the Quran into Persian. The manuscripts of all three books have survived and have been published several times." "The first French translation dates from the thirteenth century, as does the first Catalan Bible, and the Spanish Biblia Alfonsina. The most notable Middle English Bible translation, Wycliffe's Bible (1383), based on the Vulgate, was banned by the Oxford Synod of 1407-08, and was associated with the movement of the Lollards, often accused of heresy. The Malermi Bible was an Italian translation printed in 1471. In 1478, there was a Catalan translation in the dialect of Valencia. The Welsh Bible and the Alba Bible, a Jewish translation into Castilian, date from the 15th century."
The history of the Persian Language may be useful to guess what could happen to a "French" language in muslim France (it's so early on that Parisian isn't even stablished as the prestige latin vernacular of the region!).
 
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