Muslim Scandinavia

When is the earliest we can get a Muslim Scandinavia, with the smallest P.O.D (I.e no huge conquests of Europe: obviously reasonable territory gains allowed).

I would be interested to see how, and what far reaching effects people think this could have on medieval, and modern day Europe and World.
 
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So you're basically asking how we can turn a region Muslim that's 4000 kilometres away from Medina, without any new exaggerated Arab conquests?
Can't be done.
 
Can't be done is probably overstating it ... But at the very least it would need the Pontic Steppe to be much more 'muslimified' much earlier, leading to the Rus' Vikings interacting with the Muslims instead of the Orthodox Byzantine, and the Not!Varangians having a much stronger religious influence on Scandinavia
 

Maoistic

Banned
The earliest is around 9th century with Muslim Iberia. Muslims already had consolidated their rule over Iberia and North Africa by then and had a decent fleet capable of repelling European ships. I still don't see them taking Scandinavia however. Even Christians were unable to actually conquer the region, and Scandinavian Vikings actually got to them before. It's just to geographically apart from the west Mediterranean, and Muslims would also have to deal with surrounding Christian ships scouting the area, let alone Viking ones, which were arguably the best in all of Europe.
 
The problem is, by the time Islam starts to push into Europe, most of Scandinavia's neighbours are Christians. You'd need a monster Islam wank of some kind to make Islam dominant in the parts of the world the Norse actually interact with. Otherwise, it's far more attractive for them to eventually adopt the religion of their trading partners, which will likely be Christianity.

Maybe some kind of rollicking Caliphate romp in which Constantinople falls in the 700s and the Caliphate slams its way up into the Balkans, leading to much of eastern Europe converting, but that gets into "is Muslim Poland really feasible" territory.
 

Maoistic

Banned
Can't be done is probably overstating it ... But at the very least it would need the Pontic Steppe to be much more 'muslimified' much earlier, leading to the Rus' Vikings interacting with the Muslims instead of the Orthodox Byzantine, and the Not!Varangians having a much stronger religious influence on Scandinavia
Forgot that Muslims could reach Scandinavia from the Caucasus and Russia. Still, don't see that happening. With the Byzantines plus Georgia and Armenia plus the rough geography of the Uralic and Caucasian region makes it impossible for Muslims to get there before Christianity does.
 
sure, its implausible to say the least, but to outright say it's impossible merely shows that you aren't creative enough
 
Fair enough: I was thinking along the lines of Muslim Rus myself. I was particularly interested to see what you thought of the consequences of Muslim Danelaw and Normandy, which would certainly lead to some interesting European scenarios if at all possible.
 
sure, its implausible to say the least, but to outright say it's impossible merely shows that you aren't creative enough
Taking a swing at others' creativity was a bit needless.

At some level, nothing in AH is impossible, just immensely difficult and constrained by bounds of probability. Muslim Scandinavia has a lot of hurdles to plausibility and you'd need a lot of butterflies.
 
sure, its implausible to say the least, but to outright say it's impossible merely shows that you aren't creative enough

Or maybe it shows that you have a bloody clue about the subject. But that's just me thinking aloud.

Getting a plausible Muslim Scandinavia is so absolutely in ASB territory that I (to paraphrase the generic millennial teenage girls) just can't even.
The Christianization of Scandinavia was a complex process inextricably connected to and dependent on the wider European cultural and political landscape. Find a way to turn Europe Muslim and you'll likely get a Muslim Scandinavia.

But that was kinda something the OP wished to avoid.
 
Maybe this could happen on a longer timescale? Like the Mongols thoroughly subjugate Russia, Muslim!Russian Empire unifies the steppes much more quickly because of faith, then turns west and invades Scandinavia.

I mean, it’s pretty much as implausible as the rest of the scenarios so far...

rollicking Caliphate romp

This imagery is hilarious.
 

Maoistic

Banned
sure, its implausible to say the least, but to outright say it's impossible merely shows that you aren't creative enough
If Scythians, Persians, Pontic Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Huns, Magyars, Slavs and Mongols couldn't get to Scandinavia despite having a presence in the Caucasus and Urals, why do you think Muslims could?
 
If Scythians, Persians, Pontic Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Huns, Magyars, Slavs and Mongols couldn't get to Scandinavia despite having a presence in the Caucasus and Urals, why do you think Muslims could?

While I disagree that simply because others did not do something, that it is to be universally rejected for another group; this is certainly the best response to the question of whether Islam can make it to Scandinavia as anything other than a novelty among a few Viking warriors who lack any skills to know their new religion.
 
If Scythians, Persians, Pontic Greeks, Armenians, Georgians, Huns, Magyars, Slavs and Mongols couldn't get to Scandinavia despite having a presence in the Caucasus and Urals, why do you think Muslims could?

I’m not sure most of those peoples wanted to go to Scandanavia, and of the ones that plausibly did (Mongols and Slavs) the former collapsed before they could and the latter did when the Russian Empire took Finland
 

Maoistic

Banned
I’m not sure most of those peoples wanted to go to Scandanavia, and of the ones that plausibly did (Mongols and Slavs) the former collapsed before they could and the latter did when the Russian Empire took Finland

Russia annexed Finland, and even then only as an autonomous region, until the 19th century. Pretty sure the others didn't want to go to Scandinavia because they simply couldn't get there between the Black Sea, mountain ranges and the cold climate, thus proving my point.
 
Scandinavia likely have a Christian presence going back to the 5-6th century. But none of the Scandinavian states showed any interest in conversion before the Franks stood at the border and conversion became a way to avoid being invaded, a way to centralise royal power and to keep the trade going. Why would they convert to Islam, what benefit does Islam gives? A ban on one of the most eaten animals, a ban on drinking and conflict with all their neighbours. Islam gives none of the benefits of conversion to Christianity and the cons are worse.
 
Russia annexed Finland, and even then only as an autonomous region, until the 19th century. Pretty sure the others didn't want to go to Scandinavia because they simply couldn't get there between the Black Sea, mountain ranges and the cold climate, thus proving my point.

Was it that if they could get there, they would definitely just pick up shop and head for the fjords? I don’t feel like these peoples had a desire to go there apart from whether they could get there or not.
 
When is the earliest we can get a Muslim Scandinavia, with the smallest P.O.D (I.e no huge conquests of Europe: obviously reasonable territory gains allowed).

I would be interested to see how, and what far reaching effects people think this could have on medieval, and modern day Europe and World.

The smallest PoD detail eliminates the most obvious route, which is to have the Arabs conquer the Byzantines and then later on have the Rus convert; trading ties and connections with the now Islamic Rus and Al-Andalus could possibly see a Muslim Scandinavia.

Otherwise, this might end up happening in the future in part; Pew Research recently released a report that found if high levels of immigration continue, Sweden will be 30% Islamic by 2050. Presuming this level of immigration continues past 2050, and it very might given current predictions regarding climate refugees, you might see a Muslim majority Sweden by 2100. However, not all of Scandinavia will be nor will Sweden itself be overwhelmingly Islamic.
 
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