Muslim Jews !

I suppose what I meant was HOW would they retain their Jewish identity over generations if they converted to Islam ? IIRC conversion basically endows one with a new identity. Thirty years down the line, why would any ex-Jewish Muslims want to identify a racial origin that might make them seem less than other Muslims ?

I am aware that Kosovans, Albanians, Bosnian Muslims remained aware that they were of whatever race they were originally when converting to Islam. If one follows a direct corollary one simply gets a load of Muslims who know they were Jewish once

But I don't think even this would last unless they remained racially distinctive which requires GEOGRAPHICAL distinction - ie if the ex-Jewish Muslims are not in one small area, they would be subsumed

I'd say that would be the key - a Jewish identity that is ethnic or geographical rather than purely religious. It is, after all, no big problem to retain separate languages, customs, law codes, family patterns or elements of material culture when converting to Islam. Ideally, a Temple Jewish community in Judaea would be a good candidate, especially with the comparatovely high regard early Islam hed them in. But with a post-Muhammad POD, the Temple is already destroyed.

Maybe a converted Jewish group in Central Asia that devewlops a distionctly 'Jewish' identity and, after conversion to Islam, keeps it to separate itself from both the Qwarizmians and the Mongols?
 
I suppose what I meant was HOW would they retain their Jewish identity over generations if they converted to Islam ? IIRC conversion basically endows one with a new identity. Thirty years down the line, why would any ex-Jewish Muslims want to identify a racial origin that might make them seem less than other Muslims ?

I am aware that Kosovans, Albanians, Bosnian Muslims remained aware that they were of whatever race they were originally when converting to Islam. If one follows a direct corollary one simply gets a load of Muslims who know they were Jewish once

But I don't think even this would last unless they remained racially distinctive which requires GEOGRAPHICAL distinction - ie if the ex-Jewish Muslims are not in one small area, they would be subsumed

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

I see your point here.

Exactly it is about how to mix proper conditions and steps into one viable process. The said particular Jewish group must be exclusive enough in any way they can preserve their racial identity, to be able to do exactly that.

About the geographical distinction as one of the condition, I can only see 4 options so far :
a) SE. Asia. Especially around the Malaccan strait area where the OTL Radhanite trade route lies on (it's not about the remoteness, obviously). I don't know how plausible this will be, but it is certainly possible, if vaguely. Maybe a couple of Radhanite traders somehow befriend with some local ruler around there (or maybe and that, maybe coupled with some more reasons, makes them to stay permanently there, but without stopping them from trading nor excluding them from the world either. They become more accustomed with the local environment with time and that, coupled with the importance of the country they're residing (absolute requirement, I say), they become an important part of the said kingdom's society and thus are able to pull more Jews inside. And also they have to be so integrated they don't mind to follow some of whatever the course their king will take, and converting to Islam would be one of them, which means they have to be able the overcome the barriers to it, or the barriers should be gotten rid off for that. The Jews must be inclusive enough in there, and the Arabs would have to be at least have the reason to tolerate them (or maybe not having the reason to despise them?), or just being deprived from eradicating them just by promoting Islam, etc, etc.
b) China. It was rather exclusive from the rest of the world in some way, though no way totally secluded. Simply because of that, I would say it's possible enough to splinter things up for the Jewish-Muslim relation here from the universal mainstream version. Both Muslims and Jews in China were also well integrated into Chinese society, and they could well be involved in any of the affairs within the country. Anything is possible, really.
c) Ireland. My most favorite choice among all. Imagine, in a TL where the Moors were more successful in Spain, and maybe in Europe overall (the Franks got defeated in Tours? etc.). ITTL, Muslim Spain was able to conduct trade relation up until the Scandinavia and maybe even Baltic Sea, hence to just go to Ireland is a pice of cake. Say, once a day, there was a Muslim of Jewish decent, which was also a Sufi or some sort of cultist like that, ended up in Ireland and met with the Jewish there...
d) Africa.
Simply because there are quite plenty of exclusive areas there where muslims and Jews can blend onto each other privately. I don't think even Ethiopia wouldn't be a viable enough option. Or maybe somewhere in West Africa? Or Southern Africa instead (Lemba Jews) ?

No way the options above are overwhelmingly plausible but they are indeed simply possible. Things as strange happened IOTL anyway.
 
1) I'd say that would be the key - a Jewish identity that is ethnic or geographical rather than purely religious. It is, after all, no big problem to retain separate languages, customs, law codes, family patterns or elements of material culture when converting to Islam.

2) Maybe a converted Jewish group in Central Asia that devewlops a distionctly 'Jewish' identity and, after conversion to Islam, keeps it to separate itself from both the Qwarizmians and the Mongols?

1) Absolutely agree.

2) That could be possible too.
 
do the Domne (Donme?) of the Ottoman Empire and Turkey qualify? when their messiah Shabbatai Levi converted to Islam, so did all his followers - though there are some who say that even after nearly four centuries, they're still more Jewish than Muslim.

Didn't I tell you this already? It's Shabbatai Zvi, not Shabbatai Levi.
 
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