Muslim Iberia, reasons to colonize the Americas?

thanks for that info-

I wonder if the Turks (of the Ottoman or Karaman, Black or White Sheep varieties) conquer Mameluke Egypt by about 1450 or so, if they'd have a less monopoly-oriented trade regime in place of the Mamelukes. I think the Ottomans were known as low-tax, low-tariff types. If the non-monopoly system is pretty much in place from 1450 onward, I wonder how much, if at all, it would slow Iberian explorers.

Me too. I think it would probably still be tempting to get around the middlemen if possible - who wants to pay them anything?

Also, were the Iberian states a bigger per capita market for pepper than more northern Atlantic states like France, England or the Low Countries.

Not a clue.

The decree of 1429 would have affected all the Europeans, not just Iberians.

Which also brings up the other question - Did Muslim merchants from the Maghreb, west of the Mamelukes, have to buy only from the Sultan, just like Christian merchants from Europe?

But not all Europeans were in a position to launch such voyages at the time we're talking about - the Portuguese were not bogged down dealing with the HYW and aftermath like England and France, and Columbus had to wait until the Two Catholic Monarchs weren't fighting Granada.

It doesn't say specifically, but if the Sultan could sell dear because he was the only seller (with no Egyptian merchant having dared outbid him in the first place), it doesn't sound like they'd have much of a choice.
 

raharris1973

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Okay, so Iberians had advantage over their northern neighbors of not being bogged down with each other (HYW) and not being bogged down in HRE politics (Netherlands). What were the Morrocans, Algerians and Tunisians bogged down in? Were they already lagging far behind Christian Iberians in seamanship by 1429? I suspect they had much less access to lumber.
 
Okay, so Iberians had advantage over their northern neighbors of not being bogged down with each other (HYW) and not being bogged down in HRE politics (Netherlands). What were the Morrocans, Algerians and Tunisians bogged down in? Were they already lagging far behind Christian Iberians in seamanship by 1429? I suspect they had much less access to lumber.
Other than the occasional Iberian raid (e.g. the capture of Ceuta)? Well, the Marinids (who ruled Morocco) were in decline, and facing the rise of the Wattasids (their successor dynasty). So internal problems loomed larger for them.

The Zayyanids (who ruled much of Algeria) were busy collapsing into civil war and being dominated by their various neighbors (at one time or another paying tribute to just about every one of their neighbors, even Aragon), while the Hafsids (who ruled Tunisia and part of Algeria and Libya) were busy vassalizing the Zayyanids, as well as launching pirate attacks against their Christian neighbors and being attacked by pirates from their Christian neighbors. Besides, the Mediterranean requires different types of ships from what you would want for trans-Atlantic voyages.
 
Speaking of Morocco in the 17th century they did invade and conquer Timbuctoo for a little while, while that wasn't trans Atlantic colonialism it was at least trans Saharan colonialism. This could lead to Muslim Iberia trying to "one up" the Moroccan sultan by striking at the very heart of the gold fields of West Africa by Naval expedition. If that goes well for Iberia and they end up creating new trade routes, it is likely that once or twice their vessels get caught in a storm and accidentally discover Brazil.
 

raharris1973

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Speaking of Morocco in the 17th century they did invade and conquer Timbuctoo for a little while, while that wasn't trans Atlantic colonialism it was at least trans Saharan colonialism.

Although IIRC the Morroccans beat Timbuktu with the help of Spanish mercenaries.
 
I don't get why they wouldn't go west like OTL's Spaniards. They wanted to get around the Venetian-Egyptian monopoly; why won't these guys?
 
I don't get why they wouldn't go west like OTL's Spaniards. They wanted to get around the Venetian-Egyptian monopoly; why won't these guys?

My thought would be the Spanish also went west the way they did because Portugal had already gone south and gotten a monopoly Guinea Pepper, slaves and Gold by the time Spain started thinking about the West. So the Muslim Iberians could still take the Portuguese route. Going South also makes more sense if you don't make the math mistake that Colombus did.
 
Actually, the deciding facor here would be based on WHO rules this Al-Anadlus. Arab Nobles making use of Berber Lackeys? Berber Tribes splitting things up? Islamic Sub-Saharan Religious Fanatics? Muladi Iberian Muslims? That's what I would like to see Muwalladi Muslims managing to overturn the hierarchy of the Arabs and Brbers on a much more equal footing and would likely go far in stabilizing Al-Andalus.
 
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Indeed, a native-Muslim ruled Iberia (perhaps with a figurehead Umayyad Caliph?) would be quite interesting, since most Andalusia timeline neglect the problems of ethnicity here.

Perhaps the reason for Egypt-Iberia economical rivalry is because their respective figurehead Caliphs? Mamluk Sultan kept a cadet branch of the Abbasids on Cairo. Perhaps this Andalusi state kept the homegrown cadet branch of the Umayyads on Qurtuba? With most of the Maliki Western Maghrebis declaring for him? Andalusian Islam is already liberal compared to post-Mongol ME Islam, which might make it theological differences too.

A system of HRE-like electorates electing the Caliph Regent/Vizier from themselves will be very interesting, I bet. What with the Arabs in Granada/other southern cities, Slavs in Sevilla, Berbers in a couple of places, the Basques in their mountains, etc.

Having the 13th cent. Mali expedition succeed to reach Brazil to spur Maghrebis and Andalusi to go West might be another plausible reason too... Since Western Africa is not connected to Europe, the Christians will only know the new lands to the west after Andalusi/Maghrebi expedition leaked.

One thing to be sure, though. A native Andalusi state will either use Mozarabic, or their own Andalusi Arabic. So will Morocco, and Algiers. Maghrebi Arabic. If all goes well, we may see a Malinese-speaking Brazil, Maghrebi Arabic-speaking South America, and an Andalusi Arabic/Mozarabic lingua Franca in Central and North America
 
Muslim Spain has effects on European politics, Hapsburgs & HRE developing differently, and treasure wasted on attempts at crusades across the Pyrennes. How deos that affect the development of Protestantism in Europe? Without Spanish treasure from the New World how will the economy of Europe develop. ie: the Netherlands is not important manufactoring source for Iberia.
 
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