Think I’ll give it a shot…MerryPrankster said:G.Bone made a map for Mark II. Perhaps I can persuade him to make a map for Mk. III.
(put in a few unmentioned countries that I felt would probably be floating around somewhere in TTL)
Think I’ll give it a shot…MerryPrankster said:G.Bone made a map for Mark II. Perhaps I can persuade him to make a map for Mk. III.
Glad you like itMerryPrankster said:Hermanubis,
Magnificent! Magnificent I say!
MerryPrankster said:Hermanubis,
Magnificent! Magnificent I say!
Good all on the various Western European states that would still exist if the Franks expended their energies elsewhere. I might have to modify the TL considerably.
The map also gives me an idea for how to ultimately end the Franks. The "Emir of the Forests" combines the Saxons and Bavarians (and lots of mercenaries from Denmark and Scandistan) to wage jihad against the Franks. The Franks are going through one of their divided-inheritance periods and by the time someone thinks of instituting primogeniture to keep them unified, the jihadis have already amputated a big hunk of the empire.
MerryPrankster said:No takers? Well, here is the future of TTL as I have envisoned it.
1. The Britannic dynasty will ultimately become High Kings of Ireland and Dal Riada (the Irish settlements in western Scotland) as well. They and the Franks will destroy the southernmost Saxon kingdoms between them leaving Northumbia and a couple of states in the north. Northumbria will be conquered by Muslim Danes and the Franks will be force to withdraw from the south of England due to troubles at home--ultimately, there will be a Celtic reconquest that drives Islamic power from Britain and assimilates the devastated Saxons.
2. Islam will spread into Scandinavia. Many Norse in present-day Russia will convert to Islam, while the Caliphate might establish something very much like the Varangian Guard (Viking Mamelukes?). Norse warriors returning from the south might use the new faith as a pretext to wreak havoc among their pagan brethren, and as a state-building tool. We'll see Islamic equivalents of St. Olaf and Harald Fairhair.
3. Germany will be a contested area between the Franks and Muslim powers like the Caliphate, Bulgars, and Magyars. Ultimately it will be resolved by the appearance of the Emir of the Forests, who will drive the Christian Franks out of Germania and establish a powerful Islamic state there. It is this state that will ultimately destroy the Frankish Empire, and will possibly be the nucleus of the third Schism, whose teachings will bear a distinctive Catholic stamp.
4. Not sure what will happen to Spain. I think Christianized and semi-Christianized Berbers might invade and conquer at least part of it, as the Visigoth kingdom was rather weak.
5. Considering most of the Turkic peoples in TTL will be Nestorian Christian, might we see a Nestorian Golden Horde (or similar group, since the GH itself is probably going to be butterflied away) dominating Russia?
TyrannusZero said:Is all of Europe going to be Muslim or just up to the borders of OTL's France?
TyrannusZero said:For Russia converting, you'd have to change the tenets of Islam to appeal to a people that are beer and pork eaters, no? If not, you might as well make a "Catholic" Russia with its own pope.
MerryPrankster said:Well, one could make the claim that Mohammed only prohibited date wine, or for that matter, only prohibited drinking to excess (some Muslims teach this).
There's a good chance that interior Russia will be Nestorian and Turko-Mongol, while the coasts and Volga/Danube river systems will be settled by Muslim Norse and Slavs.
TyrannusZero said:Mind if I make a religious map of the area for our modern year? (I may keep the Gallo-Roman south in the Christian camp though)
Condottiero said:What about the hispano-romans in Spain get rid of the Visigoth Kings with help of the berbers?
MerryPrankster said:Sure.
Could you describe what went on in Spain re: the Visigoths and the Hispano-Romans? I know that the Visigoths' Arianism wasn't helpful, but I don't know much else.
Christian countries currently should be:TyrannusZero said:Does Venice stay Christian?
Always thought that the centuries long Crusade against the Islamic Moors lead to the Catholic character of Spain today…TyrannusZero said:Basically, what happened on OTL was that it went to a religious civil war. One Visigothic noble became Catholic and it led to war with the Arian upper classes. It ended with the Arian defeat and led to the very Catholic character of Spain today.
TyrannusZero said:Does Venice stay Christian?
Hermanubis said:Always thought that the centuries long Crusade against the Islamic Moors lead to the Catholic character of Spain today…
Hermanubis said:Christian countries currently should be:
Roman Empire (Sicilian)
Roman Empire (Punic)
Kingdom of Egypt
Visgothic Kingdom
Frankish Kingdom (including Aquitaine and Burgundy)
Venice
Armenia (?)
Chakanid Sultanate
Ertugrulid Sultanate
Maronite Kingdom
Vasconia
Crete (if Independent)
North-Umbria
And the Celts
It was quite dramatic as the noble that rebelled was Hermenegild, the son of King Leovigild, that died in the process. The next king converted to catholicism.TyrannusZero said:Basically, what happened on OTL was that it went to a religious civil war. One Visigothic noble became Catholic and it led to war with the Arian upper classes. It ended with the Arian defeat and led to the very Catholic character of Spain today.