Muslim Europe, 732 A.D.

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Delvestius

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Now I don't know about that... I mean, it may happen, but I think what is more likely is that the North with forever remain a predominately Islamic state, whereas in the south, some sort of Dravidian Empire will emerge, with Hinduism as their dominate faith.

However, it is interesting to think about how a technologically advanced Islamic Western Europe would treat the Muslims of Africa and Asia. Would the colonize them nonetheless, or would they be more benevolent to them, opting for one sided trade deals as opposed to outright colonization... It is likely that China will be ripped apart for refusing to convert.
 
However, it is interesting to think about how a technologically advanced Islamic Western Europe would treat the Muslims of Africa and Asia. Would the colonize them nonetheless, or would they be more benevolent to them, opting for one sided trade deals as opposed to outright colonization... It is likely that China will be ripped apart for refusing to convert.

Integration into Middle East and North African economies will spam quite lots of butterflies. IOTL Western European expansion outwards had a lot to do with "civilization barriers" between Christendom and Muslim world, which while has been often overrated, still quite factored. Not saying anyone in charge of Constantinople ITTL cannot be as much an extortionist towards European traders but Islamic conquest of Italy will bring plenty of butterflies into its following political structure and its later evolutions and impact to surroundings that it's just so hard to have it similar in the way it happened IOTL. European cultural sphere and its natures and exclusivity had everything to do with Roman Catholic Church's all reaching tentacles over Europe, which is an absent factor ITTL. And that's why it's reasonable to assume that Islamic Europe is an integrated part of Muslim world economic realm, especially with Mediterranean Sea being solidly Islamic lake.

What that will do to European expansion outwards ? Mostly that there will be less drive to reach India and China which will come later since the rest of muslim world, and thus the rest of the world, isn't closed to them. *Americas will be discovered and conquered. But instead of it being discovered by Europeans out of firey desire to explore and reach Asia, the drive to explore will stem out of discovery of *Americas, which will likely to be discovered later. And without the pressure of OTL, European exploration age will be less intense and less aggressive so economic penetration and colonialism into Asia and Africa will be generally more gradual then OTL.
 

Delvestius

Banned
I suppose another interesting question is whether slavery would be practiced in great numbers. I'm pretty sure, with almost all of Africa being Muslim, plus Islamic Europe's greater levels of... Well, not general destructiveness, that this would not come to be. Perhaps it may happen in small numbers, but not necessarily based on race, such as as it was during ancient Rome and Egypt.
 
I suppose another interesting question is whether slavery would be practiced in great numbers. I'm pretty sure, with almost all of Africa being Muslim, plus Islamic Europe's greater levels of... Well, not general destructiveness, that this would not come to be. Perhaps it may happen in small numbers, but not necessarily based on race, such as as it was during ancient Rome and Egypt.

Muslims are certainly no stranger to racism and indeed, slavery. Islamic Europe will have much better access to slave market compared to OTL christian Europe. Not only that, they will be next door to a fairly big source of slaves, in early period at least. Countries like Angland and Poland won't gonna have a nice memories of interactions with Muslim Western Europe.

Interesting to see how Atlantic slave trade will look like ITTL. Maybe there will be slave-worked plantations set up in Europe ?
 

Delvestius

Banned
Muslims are certainly no stranger to racism and indeed, slavery. Islamic Europe will have much better access to slave market compared to OTL christian Europe. Not only that, they will be next door to a fairly big source of slaves, in early period at least. Countries like Angland and Poland won't gonna have a nice memories of interactions with Muslim Western Europe.

Interesting to see how Atlantic slave trade will look like ITTL. Maybe there will be slave-worked plantations set up in Europe ?

Would European Muslims enslave other Muslims though? I feel that regardless of skin color, if Islam had spread far enough into Africa and Asia they would be reluctant to put other people of the book into bondage.

Christians, Jews and Traditionalists are a different story...
 
I suppose another interesting question is whether slavery would be practiced in great numbers. I'm pretty sure, with almost all of Africa being Muslim, plus Islamic Europe's greater levels of... Well, not general destructiveness, that this would not come to be. Perhaps it may happen in small numbers, but not necessarily based on race, such as as it was during ancient Rome and Egypt.

Rome didnt practice slavery by race, if you where conquered by Rome they enslaved a lot of you but it was also a punishment for not repaying debts to be sold into slavery.
 

Delvestius

Banned
Rome didnt practice slavery by race, if you where conquered by Rome they enslaved a lot of you but it was also a punishment for not repaying debts to be sold into slavery.

This is true, but is was also common to enslave conquered tribes in Germany and other regions. Perhaps "ethnicity" would have been a better word to use.
 
A couple things to consider

An umayadd dynasty that conquered france and italy might last a lot longer even if they suffer reverses in africa against the abassids. They might become a multi-cultural multiethnic kingdom. Also the temporal power of the roman catholic church might be greatly reduced.

On the other hand umayadds in al andalus might decide its better to have christian tributary buffer states between them and the Eastern Roman empire. A moderate caliph might understand the importance of protecting the pope from being "dominated" by byzantium. In exchange the pope would be free to control christian religious matters without the meddling of the byzantine emperor. In OTL in the early 700s byzantium controlled the papacy with an iron fist. Also the iconoclast controversy had weakened the western support for the byzantine emperor.
 
Pork yes, and alcohol to an extent.

Concerning circumcision, I don't why it would or wouldn't either way... That's pretty specific.


I Think if Europe is Muslim I Don't Think so that Germans and Scandinavians Would Eat Pork because in Islam Pork is Strictly Avoided.

Scots and Icelandic People Don't Eat Pork and They Avoided it also They Live in Northern Climate

BTW

In Albania, Most Albanians Consumed Pork a lot and They are 53% Muslim
Go to Albania, they are Restaurants Serving Pork and So do as Meat Markets and Supermarkets they Sell Pork too

Also in Kosovo, They are a lot of Kosovars are Consuming Pork after Genocide in 1998-1999 and Go to Kosovo, You Will See Restaurants that Served Cevapa(Cevapcici), Pljeskavica and Prosciutto Most made From Pork too

If Europe is Muslim instead of Christianity and Europeans(Especially Germans, Scandinavians, Dutch, Albanians and Bosnians) Would not Eat Pork at all and they would Avoid it
 
The Seljuks, Ottomans or Mongols (probably) won't even exist due to butterflies. So Byzantium will live on! Yeah, so the point I am trying to get across is that those butterflies have been ignored. Also AVE ROMA!
 
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