Muslim Conquest of Australia

ben0628

Banned
After Islam spread throughout Southeast Asia and Indonesia, is there any plausible way it can make it to Australia? Could a Southeast Asian Sultanate conquer parts of Australia? Could Islam potentially be the dominant region on the island by the time the Europeans arrived? How powerful could a Islamic Australia be if it could happen?
 
It did make it to Aboriginal Australia in a highly diluted form; the Yolngu high deity Walitha'walitha has blatant Islamic influences, as the Yolngu have realized, and they adopted Macassan prayers (apparently including "Bismillah al Rahman al Rahim").

But there's just no reason whatsoever for Indonesians to actively conquer Australia.
 
There's nothing that the Indonesian states would want to conquer. They did trade for sea cucumber and stuff like that but there was no point trying to take over nomadic tribes in completely wild terrain.
 
After Islam spread throughout Southeast Asia and Indonesia, is there any plausible way it can make it to Australia? Could a Southeast Asian Sultanate conquer parts of Australia? Could Islam potentially be the dominant region on the island by the time the Europeans arrived? How powerful could a Islamic Australia be if it could happen?

Many Asian Sultanates could have sent ships to Australia, however before the europeans, the continent had no cities to trade with and no population to speak of in order to make trade or conquest worthwhile. If anything, the only reason a Sultanate would establish a presence on Australia would be to have a stopover place for their ships on route to New Zealand or southern New Guinea.
 
You'd need Indonesians to consider Australia as something more than just a giant desert/tropical wasteland with good sea cucumber. I don't think the Macassans were particularly Islamic, either. But maybe you could get a particularly religious trepanger who realises that Australia is full of people who need to hear the Koran, and then he needs to get back home and find some religious authorities to go with him. Maybe they start a settlement in Australia at some point.

But Australia's a big place. I doubt even in that scenario it would spread much further than the main areas of Macassan contact, although many more Aboriginal groups would have Islamic influences in their culture.
 
You'd need Indonesians to consider Australia as something more than just a giant desert/tropical wasteland with good sea cucumber. I don't think the Macassans were particularly Islamic, either. But maybe you could get a particularly religious trepanger who realises that Australia is full of people who need to hear the Koran, and then he needs to get back home and find some religious authorities to go with him. Maybe they start a settlement in Australia at some point.

But Australia's a big place. I doubt even in that scenario it would spread much further than the main areas of Macassan contact, although many more Aboriginal groups would have Islamic influences in their culture.

Wasn't the that the at least stated motivation of some of the European explorers/conquerors in the new world's? To spread Christianity to the primitive heathens.
 
I guess the idea of a Muslim conquistador is possible, but it is a bit more unlikely in the case of Indonesia. I'm not an expert on the area, but it seems that until the colonial era the Indonesian sultanates didn't have a jihadist streak. This is probably because the primary method of spread was trade, not conquest.
 
Wasn't the that the at least stated motivation of some of the European explorers/conquerors in the new world's? To spread Christianity to the primitive heathens.

Correct. I envision it might result in something similar to the mission system in Texas and California if an Indonesian tried to convert the Aboriginals. But I'm not sure if the Islamic missionary approach ever functioned like that. West Africa might be a decent model for how it might work, now that I think of it. Maybe it could even create a strong native Aboriginal state in the style of the Fulani Jihads--all you'd need for that is one of these Muslim Aboriginals decrying the religious practices of his neighbours, and once he gets rid of them, what's to stop him from moving into non-Muslim territory?

In any case, you'll need more Indonesian contact with Australia, and I think a religious drive would be a pretty solid reason for it.
 
Wasn't the that the at least stated motivation of some of the European explorers/conquerors in the new world's? To spread Christianity to the primitive heathens.

So, all we need to do is for northern Australia to have lots of gold. I'm sure the Indonesians will fins lots of motivation then. :D

You'd need Indonesians to consider Australia as something more than just a giant desert/tropical wasteland with good sea cucumber..

So, all in all they had a pretty accurate picture...
 

ben0628

Banned
There's nothing that the Indonesian states would want to conquer. They did trade for sea cucumber and stuff like that but there was no point trying to take over nomadic tribes in completely wild terrain.

I know most of the people were nomadic, but weren't there people who lived in permanent settlements and farmed in Northeastern Australia (I thought I read something about them from somewhere)?

Also, was sea cucumber really the only thing Australians had to offer when it came to trade? I feel like there is massive potential for a Kangaroo Fur Trade.
 
I know most of the people were nomadic, but weren't there people who lived in permanent settlements and farmed in Northeastern Australia (I thought I read something about them from somewhere)?

Also, was sea cucumber really the only thing Australians had to offer when it came to trade? I feel like there is massive potential for a Kangaroo Fur Trade.

Would there really be any demand for furs in an equatorial, tropical region like Indonesia and the rest of Southern Asia?
 
As has been mentioned, (and this subject has come up here before), the key is economics. Find something, whether it be gold, gems, or a rare plant that the aboriginees find and trade. Some enterprising Muslim traders from Southeast Asia/Indonesia might then set up a trading post, which grows into a settlement, which then spreads, coupled with some prosletyzing, and you could have a very large Islamic presence. What items are readily accessible in this way? Gold? Opals? I have no idea.
 

ben0628

Banned
Would there really be any demand for furs in an equatorial, tropical region like Indonesia and the rest of Southern Asia?

In Indonesia? Probably not, but maybe Muslim traders can act as middlemen and resell the furs to more northern Asian countries such as China, Korea, and Japan. I,m sure Kangaroo furs could be the new fad craze in Ming China's Imperial Court.

As has been mentioned, (and this subject has come up here before), the key is economics. Find something, whether it be gold, gems, or a rare plant that the aboriginees find and trade. Some enterprising Muslim traders from Southeast Asia/Indonesia might then set up a trading post, which grows into a settlement, which then spreads, coupled with some prosletyzing, and you could have a very large Islamic presence. What items are readily accessible in this way? Gold? Opals? I have no idea.

Australia has mineral wealth, but it isn't really readily accessible for the time period. Muslims would have to settle the area first. Once discovering gold (Australia has a good bit of it), maybe a gold rush could occur, bringing thousands of Muslims from Southeast Asia to Australia.
 
here the biggest problem is the lack of agriculture and civilizations. Australia is really a poor place for growing crops, at least in the north where the Muslims would make first contact.
 
here the biggest problem is the lack of agriculture and civilizations. Australia is really a poor place for growing crops, at least in the north where the Muslims would make first contact.

Yes, agriculture will be limited and difficult to take up in that region. But it's doable, tropical crops (banana, sago, etc., but not rice) can grow decently in those parts of OTL Northern Territory.

As has been mentioned, (and this subject has come up here before), the key is economics. Find something, whether it be gold, gems, or a rare plant that the aboriginees find and trade. Some enterprising Muslim traders from Southeast Asia/Indonesia might then set up a trading post, which grows into a settlement, which then spreads, coupled with some prosletyzing, and you could have a very large Islamic presence. What items are readily accessible in this way? Gold? Opals? I have no idea.

The diamond mines are a decent ways inland, so it would be by pure chance. Gold is mostly even further away from where the Indonesians visited, so that's probably out.

The best rare plant would probably be the Tasmannia pepperbushes, which are a very good spice. Some of the Backhousia myrtles could also be of interest. Unfortunately, they also don't occur anywhere near where Indonesians were.

I know most of the people were nomadic, but weren't there people who lived in permanent settlements and farmed in Northeastern Australia (I thought I read something about them from somewhere)?

Also, was sea cucumber really the only thing Australians had to offer when it came to trade? I feel like there is massive potential for a Kangaroo Fur Trade.

You might be thinking of the Gunditjmara, who were sedentary but non-agricultural (they did have a suprisingly complex system of eel aquaculture, however). And they lived in southeast Australia. I'm not aware of any other sedentary groups (there might have been some, though) and I know of none who farmed.

Kangaroo fur would be mostly useless, but kangaroo skin/leather makes for pretty good leather. Could be interesting, maybe set up a sort of tannery using Aboriginal workers. Probably won't go over well, however.
 
You might be thinking of the Gunditjmara, who were sedentary but non-agricultural (they did have a suprisingly complex system of eel aquaculture, however). And they lived in southeast Australia. I'm not aware of any other sedentary groups (there might have been some, though) and I know of none who farmed.

Kangaroo fur would be mostly useless, but kangaroo skin/leather makes for pretty good leather. Could be interesting, maybe set up a sort of tannery using Aboriginal workers. Probably won't go over well, however.

IIRC there is evidence of semi-permanent settlements in the Murray Valley but once again, it's on the wrong side of the continent to pique any Indonesian power's interest.
 
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