Musings on the military applications of Zeppelins

Everyone loves Zeppelins, but whatever PoD produced OTL seems to have had an unfortunate butterfly effect meaning that they don't seem to have caught on around here. In a world where even things like hovercraft have found their niche and are used on a specialist level, it seems a little strange that nobody uses them at all any more. So... even though this is approaching the question the wrong way round (Zeppelins are cool, therefore let's think of a way to use them practically), what realistic ways could we see Zeppelins used in a military context in an ATL? (Note: I’m not thinking of any specific TL here, although in period terms I’m mainly thinking of technology similar to OTL’s 1920-1950 or so)


1: Bomber


This of course is how Zeppelins were used most prominently in WW1, but I think we can probably give this one a miss. There's nothing a Zeppelin can do in this field that a heaver then air bomber can't do more cheaply, quickly and effectively, although I suppose one potential advantage would be that the zeppelins would be able to carry their own fighter escort with them and only launch when there's a threat. Having said that, imagine what an incredible sight a 1000-airship raid on a city would be for the short time it lasted...


2: Mobile gun platform

Another idea would be to take advantage of the Zeppelin's ability to carry
large loads and strap a bunch of guns to the side, similar to the gunships
that OTL's USAF has been using since the Vietnam war but on a larger scale. This would have quite a few advantages - it could provide lightly-equipped troops with much needed aerial support and be relatively mobile to boot, while still packing quite a lot of firepower. More importantly, it also brings us closer to our real objective- Moorcockian aerial battleships bristling with heavy guns willing and able to duel amongst the skies... Unfortunately, I can't see this being hugely practical. Zeppelins are big targets and would be sitting ducks for any enemy fighters that come along during their bombardment. The end result would probably similar to what happened in 1914 when the Germans tried to use them for daytime raids over France and Belgium- the Zeppelins would have to gain height to avoid ground fire, to the extent where their own weapons were useless. In addition, while they could carry bigger guns then their heavier-then-air counterparts a single Zeppelin gunship would probably be less practical, more expensive and far more ponderous then a flight of planes equipped for the same purpose. So that's a no-no too. Pity.


3: Scout


Again, this was done OTL by the Germans, who used zeppelin scouts in the North Sea and Baltic. Zeppelins were actually quite useful in this context, at least until the development of spotter planes which did the same job but more quickly and cheaply. Their main utility would be at sea obviously, and over extreme distances where the superior endurance of the Zeppelin comes into its own. Once carriers are developed however the use of Zeppelins for reconnaissance will be somewhat limited. Again then, probably not a particularly useful employment of them.


4: Flying Aircraft Carrier

One option I suppose would be using Zeppelins as a sort of flying aircraft carrier, allowing navies to cover a much larger area while searching for an enemy fleet, and also giving the zeppelin the ability to launch attacks on any shipping it encounters. Obviously they're never going to be able to hold as many planes as a conventional carrier and if they come up against one they'll have to retreat or get shot out of the sky, but it could be a useful way of preying on small convoys, harassing shipping and generally making a nuisance. Can we say this is a maybe then?


5: Anti-Submarine platform

One area I think Zeppelins would be rather good at would be in Anti-Submarine Warfare, where their long range and ability to fly would be rather helpful. They’re large enough to carry a lot of depth charges, and can mount sonar as well. OTL ISTR Allied convoys in WWII suffered their worst losses in areas outside friendly aircraft range- in a TL where Zeppelins are used in this role this will no longer be a problem for merchant shipping. I reckon this one would work.


6: Convoy ship

And speaking of convoys, in a TL where the submarine menace gets too much, why not abandon the surface altogether for merchant shipping and use Zeppelins for heavy lifting instead? OTL the Pentagon’s looking into airships for heavy lifting, and we know that Zeppelins can potentially carry large loads faster then surface ships. OTOH it’s going to be expensive as you’ll have to develop a whole new infrastructure to load and unload the zeppelins let alone build them, but in a situation where zeppelins are already more widespread it could be far easier. A definite possible, I think.


7: AWACS

It occurs to me that while radar is still in a relatively early state a Zeppelin might be a good place to mount one, to provide mobile support for nearby aircraft or ships. I don’t know enough about early radar and its development to guess whether this is plausible or not, but having a mobile early warning system might prove very useful. Not sure on this one, but it seems to have some potential.


8: Troop transport

Zeppelins can carry a lot, and are airborne- so why not use them for carrying troops and equipment into battle? This was discussed in the recent ‘World War one paratroopers’ thread (http://snipurl.com/mtsu) and to me the use of zeppelins to create an early form of air cavalry is quite a plausible one. You’re not going to have the scattering problem that you get with parachutes, and you can land lots of men in one go. It could also be used in conjunction with paratroops to land heavier equipment like tanks and artillery. Obviously zeppelins are going to be pretty vulnerable when making their landing, but with sufficient air cover and so on it could work. Plus there’s the advantage of their long range to consider. I reckon this could be a good use of zeppelins, although I’m sure somebody will point out a glaring problem…


9: Colonial policeman

OTL aircraft were used a fair bit in the suppression of colonial revolts, but it occurs to me that zeppelins are potentially really useful here. 1 Zeppelin + onboard troops + a couple of aircraft = instant strike force that can patrol indefinitely over vast areas of difficult terrain and deal with anything nasty that emerges. I must admit that the image of zeppelins cruising over the northwest frontier is a rather evocative one and I think this is an idea that has potential…


So, what are people’s thoughts? I’m trying to keep this separate from any particular TL or PoD and instead concentrate on the practicality of such things assuming Zeppelins catch on. I’m no military expert so I’m sure there are gigantic wholes in my reasoning all over the place, but I think it’d be interesting to actually explore what realistic uses zeppelins could be put to.
 
Actually Zepplins (well at least unmanned ones) might be making a comeback as a communications platform. For example they would make a really good cell 'tower' in low population areas like North or South Dakota, and you would only need a few of them to cover the entire state. Not to mention they could hover on the edge of a battlefield and act as node in beyond-line-of-sight military communications.
 

Straha

Banned
What about as a way to do *sattelite communication without actually going into space for the *sattelites?
 

Hendryk

Banned
I recall an issue of a popular science magazine I used to read in the 1980s that mentioned a project of a giant spherical hot-air balloon that would serve as a mobile platform for smaller helium-filled blimps. It would have a rigid structure and rely on solar power to maintain its internal temperature, and float in the low stratosphere.

AFAIC the most promising role for Zeppelins is as freight carriers (especially in the context of rising fuel costs), though luxury cruise airships would definitely find a market.
 
EdT said:
5: Anti-Submarine platform

One area I think Zeppelins would be rather good at would be in Anti-Submarine Warfare, where their long range and ability to fly would be rather helpful. They’re large enough to carry a lot of depth charges, and can mount sonar as well. OTL ISTR Allied convoys in WWII suffered their worst losses in areas outside friendly aircraft range- in a TL where Zeppelins are used in this role this will no longer be a problem for merchant shipping. I reckon this one would work.
The Americans actually using airships in this manner during WW2 so if the British can kept the R100 and R101 and built more of them, they could have been used in the North Atlantic against U Boats too. Of course quite a few would be needed to make any impression, but they would have covered more area than the flying boats did as they could stay on station for longer, say a couple of days per mission. Of course they would be vulnerable to attack by Condors buzzing them and spraying thaem with machine gun fire. I wouldn't expect one to be shot down, but crew could be killed, engines damaged and fuel tanks punctured.

It would take more than a few airships to have won the Battle of the Atlantic, but their presence could would made it mucher harder going for the U Boats. It is even possible that they could have led to an earlier introduction of the snorkal.
 
One problem with zeppelins (and I mean true rigid airships, not blimps or anything else), is that they are often much more expensive and manpower intensive than alternative means of achieving the same overall military end. Only if alternative technologies (airplanes) were somehow delayed or postponed, there is only a fairly short window in which rigid airships are truly viable militarily.

Of the situations you describe, the naval applications (scout, aircraft carrier, fast troop transport, ASW, fast cargo) are the most likely). I also find your idea of colonial suppression very interesting. I'll have to think about that.
 

Thande

Donor
Next week: Oswald Mosley conquers the Nazis by building an invincible armada of airships ;)

I'm trying to think of a situation that would specifically disadvantage heavier than air aircraft in favour of airships.
 
Assuming the basic technology of aviation progresses as in OTL, I tend to believe the best ways to preserve zeppelins as a viable military and commercial technology for several decades or more is for there to be no First World War, or failing that to have Germany emerge victorious early. Wars tend to speed up the pace of technological development, and airplanes progressed faster in the 1914-1918 period than rigid airships. In 1914, airships (both rigid and non-rigid) were viewed by most powers as the principal likely means of meaningful military aviation. They were already faster than surface ships, only somewhat slower than planes, were capable of higher ceilings than early planes, were safer and more reliable, and had substantially greater payload and endurance.

Had there been no WW1, or if it had resulted in a quick German victory in France, the following would have been likely: (1) neither airships nor airplanes would have played a major part in the war - and the advantages airplanes only demostrated after 1915-1916 might not have been seen, (2) The Zeppelin firm would have continued to develop and advance its line of commercial and military airships, albeit at a slower technological pace, (3) the zeppelin rigid airship technology would probably have eventually been licensed to or "stolen" by competitors in France, Britain, the USA, and elsewhere. This happened during and after WW1, but I suspect the copying would be easier and more effective in a peacetime environment, (4) the name and concept "zeppelin" would not have been tainted by images of teutonic "babykillers" dropping bombs on Britain. The technology would not be seen as so uniquely German, even if the Germans did remain in the lead, and finally (5) American helium might eventually become available to the industry as a whole, without stingent export limitations.

Quite possibly large rigid airships would become the major "big-ticket" items in aviation, receiving large government contracts for state airlines and military services, massive infrastructure investment (masts, hangers, hydrogen plants, helium extraction, etc), and most of the press, while airplanes remained the plaything of tinkering backyard inventers, stuntmen, and adventurers. As the ability of airplanes gradually improved, they might initially be perceived more as adjuncts to airships, being carried on airships as launches for replenishment and mail/passenger landing, or for a stand off offensive military capacity - rather than to be developed themselves as long-range, heavy load vehicles. While no doubt the ulitimate development potential of the airplane would have been understood by visionaries, at least conceptually, social and industrial inertia of an existing airship industral complex could have retarded the actual realization of these ideas for many years.

Even in this world, however, I suspect the main military roles of airships would be limited to naval scouting, long range transport, ASW tasks and the like. It would not take long to learn that they were unable to attack defended military targets themselves - and the only thing which might be gained by using stand off airplane bombers would be to give somebody the bright idea to cram a lot more and heavier planes on ships and , voila, you have a much better offensive weapon in the aircraft carrier
 
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I would guess that barring major breakthroughs in materials technology, Zeppelins are too fragile for most military purposes.

Early discovery of some kind of honeycomb/foam light structure, with the hollows filled with helium, might make them more robust.

I like the colonial idea. Zeppelin-based exploration expeditions into the unknown with a geographic knowledge similar to 1860s OTL sounds good. Especially if the people flying them isn't who one would expect.
 

The Sandman

Banned
This may be a little out there, but I could see great potential for the flying aircraft carrier idea in the near future, assuming that drones become the primary aerial combatant.

If you can eliminate the need for human techs during the flight, just loft the zeppelin up above the normal combat ceilings of other aircraft (I am working under the assumption that an airship, due to its nature as an extremely light-weight craft, can reach higher altitudes than the average manned fighter) and have it deploy its drones to attack.

As far as counterattacking it goes, it's too high for the Mark One Eyeball to effectively aim at, it probably produces minimal IR radiation while on station (especially without the need for life-support for a human crew) and one would think that you could minimize its radar cross-signature through whatever material you construct the gasbag out of. It would only be really vulnerable while ascending or descending, but that could probably be done well inside your own territory.

Find a way of resupplying it in midair, and you have an aircraft platform that could stay on station more or less indefinitely.
 
Straha said:
What about as a way to do *sattelite communication without actually going into space for the *sattelites?
There is a company beginning to do that right now.

The problem with airships in warfare is their fragility. That huge bag of gas....Just one hit and its punctured. You would really need to go ASB and have FF style airships or some sort of strong fabric armour.
 
Straha said:
What about as a way to do *sattelite communication without actually going into space for the *sattelites?

You mean like the stratellite?

Torqumada

sanswire-one-may-12-4.jpg
 
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The Sandman

Banned
...some sort of strong fabric armor.

It would probably be expensive as all hell, even once it's technologically viable, but how about spider silk as the fabric material? I'm pretty sure that there's already research being done into how to produce sizeable quantities of it for body armor; if you wanted to make the gas bag out of it, you'd just need a larger quantity.

The problem with airships in warfare is their fragility. That huge bag of gas....Just one hit and its punctured

I would be highly surprised if any military airship of the future didn't compartmentalize the gasbag, precisely to avoid a total loss of the craft if the bag is punctured.
 
thesandman said:
It would probably be expensive as all hell, even once it's technologically viable, but how about spider silk as the fabric material? I'm pretty sure that there's already research being done into how to produce sizeable quantities of it for body armor; if you wanted to make the gas bag out of it, you'd just need a larger quantity..

That problem is already being solved.

Torqumada
 

blysas

Banned
Now to imagine the size of a blimp aircraft carrier during the 30's/40's . It would have to be 200-250 m in length, while 100 m in width. Also it would have to use AremicanHelium which in theory would give it capability to ligt very huge amounts of tonnage. Also the base if the ballon would have to be very large, it would have to able to carry 5-10 planes of each side. In theory it would be crazy, in reality though it would be a devasting weapon. The only problem I see that is if it was used in WW2. let's say the paffic, it would have to go a long way to bomb a target.


Thoughts ?
 
High altitude spying missions would be the best bet. Hey even with radar an airship constructed out right materials and with a camouflaged base would be virtually invisible from the ground as it slow manoeuvred over enemy territory snapping photos of secret installations.

I also remember reading that mining companies use airships with some form of giant metal detector coil to search for mineral deposits.
 
It would seem that airships are making a comeback in Europe in terms of the Heavy Lifter (I think that's the correct term) project.
Airships still seem viable platforms for some aspects of ASW & AWACS duties.
The current fixed wing ASW & AWACS a/c are vulnerable and have to remain outside high-threat areas.
The same would be true of the airship versions but they would have one advantage - endurance without the need for in-flight refueling.
They could also serve are launch & control platfroms for various RPV's & UAV's. Being airborne the line of sight communications would be longer.
 
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