Music and Longer Vietnam War?

A longer Vietnam war is one of the more popular subjects in post-War AH, as is anything to do with Vietnam in general. One of the bigger things about Vietnam in public thought is that it's recognized for a sort of war soundtrack; some songs that were just popular during the era, some that were popular with the soldiers, some were just normals songs and others were written about the war itself.

So let's say we have Vietnam continue as an American war past 1973, and into the 1980s. First, what effect would that have on music itself? Second, what songs of post-1973 of the OTL would be befitting this continued Vietnam?
 
*Norton's Reply*

Personally, I think metal and hard rock in general would be befitting, not just because it would be popular music the troops listened to and popular music the era is known for, but because it is fitting of adrenaline and blowing things up. I think AC/DC would be quite befitting; the 60s had "Paint It Black" the 80s 'Nam could have "Back in Black" as a big song. And you have songs like "Thunderstruck", "Highway to Hell", and so on. Just general bad-assery.
That's all that comes to mine there.

How it'd effect music, I don't myself know. I think protest songs would still continue, and trends that ended with the end of Vietnam could continue. I think the people and things that got destroyed under the weight of everything going on still will be. I think the "Me Decade" trends could still come, because I think that at a certain point, the horror of that war will just be background noise many just have to live with and many will stop caring because its too much effort. At a certain point, people just want distraction and people want to feel good; people always want to feel good when faced with a bad reality, and look for things to make them feel bad when they're feeling good and forget the feeling.
What I'm driving at is one thing....Disco. I think Disco could still arise with as much likelihood of the OTL. It won't fit the troops probably; I can't see some 21 year old in-country for a second tour listening to "Night Fever" by the Bee Gees while on a 12 AM patrol. But I think it'd be something the civilian population would have liked back in the US, and maybe something you'd in South Vietnamese population centers while on R and R.
 

pnyckqx

Banned
A longer Vietnam war is one of the more popular subjects in post-War AH, as is anything to do with Vietnam in general. One of the bigger things about Vietnam in public thought is that it's recognized for a sort of war soundtrack; some songs that were just popular during the era, some that were popular with the soldiers, some were just normals songs and others were written about the war itself.

So let's say we have Vietnam continue as an American war past 1973, and into the 1980s. First, what effect would that have on music itself? Second, what songs of post-1973 of the OTL would be befitting this continued Vietnam?
Maybe some stuff that's darker on one side of the popular music spectrum. From what we've seen about long term conflicts OTL with almost 11 years of combat and an increasing number of suicides among the military, dark is probably going to come out with a longer Vietnam conflict. Because the military would be necessarily larger, it would take longer than it would today. You don't have people on their seventh deployment (unless they volunteer).

On the other end of the spectrum you'd have a lot more introspective stuff.

Yet a third possibility, because wars are damned expensive times get tough for civilians. You'd have some depression era stuff that is redone to a modern sound.
 
*Norton's Reply*

Personally, I think metal and hard rock in general would be befitting, not just because it would be popular music the troops listened to and popular music the era is known for, but because it is fitting of adrenaline and blowing things up. I think AC/DC would be quite befitting; the 60s had "Paint It Black" the 80s 'Nam could have "Back in Black" as a big song. And you have songs like "Thunderstruck", "Highway to Hell", and so on. Just general bad-assery.
That's all that comes to mine there.

How it'd effect music, I don't myself know. I think protest songs would still continue, and trends that ended with the end of Vietnam could continue. I think the people and things that got destroyed under the weight of everything going on still will be. I think the "Me Decade" trends could still come, because I think that at a certain point, the horror of that war will just be background noise many just have to live with and many will stop caring because its too much effort. At a certain point, people just want distraction and people want to feel good; people always want to feel good when faced with a bad reality, and look for things to make them feel bad when they're feeling good and forget the feeling.
What I'm driving at is one thing....Disco. I think Disco could still arise with as much likelihood of the OTL. It won't fit the troops probably; I can't see some 21 year old in-country for a second tour listening to "Night Fever" by the Bee Gees while on a 12 AM patrol. But I think it'd be something the civilian population would have liked back in the US, and maybe something you'd in South Vietnamese population centers while on R and R.

Well, staying in the '70s, we'd have songs like:

Deep Purple - Stormbringer
Rainbow - Kill The King
Nazareth - Hair Of the Dog
AC/DC - TNT
Blue Öyster Cult - Don't Fear The Reaper
Blue Öyster Cult - Cities On Flame
Aerosmith - Rats In The Cellar
Van Halen - Runnin' With The Devil
Alice Cooper - Welcome To My Nightmare
AC/DC - Highway To Hell


Going into the '80s:

Black Sabbath - Neon Knights
Blue Öyster Cult - Veteran Of The Psychic Wars
AC/DC - Hells Bells


I could probably come up with more, but I'm tired. :)
 
Maybe some stuff that's darker on one side of the popular music spectrum. From what we've seen about long term conflicts OTL with almost 11 years of combat and an increasing number of suicides among the military, dark is probably going to come out with a longer Vietnam conflict. Because the military would be necessarily larger, it would take longer than it would today. You don't have people on their seventh deployment (unless they volunteer).

On the other end of the spectrum you'd have a lot more introspective stuff.

Yet a third possibility, because wars are damned expensive times get tough for civilians. You'd have some depression era stuff that is redone to a modern sound.

The military suicides thing is more a myth. Soldier suicides were no greater than normal suicide rates. It's part of that whole "Guilty Soldier" idea, which isn't true; the majority of soldiers felt no guilt for their involvement in the war, believe they were doing good for the people of South Vietnam, and said they would have done it again if they had it to do over.

Anyway, I think you have two things that would go on with this. Anytime you have something going on, you have things that are made to be reflective of it, and things that are made to escape it. If something good happens, you have things that reflect the good, and then things that are made just to make people feel bad because they can afford to feel bad because they're pretty ok and things are ok, and they forget the feeling. It's a bit melodramatic. When you have bad things, you have things reflective of the bad things, talking about them, protesting them, capturing the moods they elicit and so on, but also things made to escape it because people just want to get away from it and feel good. This is why you had songs during the Depression like "Brother, Can You Spare A Dime", and an ungodly amount of Blues and Folk singing about the troubles going on, but you also had things that were jumpy and happy to lift people up.
I think you'd see something similar here too, and I do think that escapism already existed in the culture to run from the Vietnam. I think you'd have things that were reflective of the moods elicited by the war, reflective of it, protesting it, talking about all the other things going on related to it, and so on, but I think you'd also have things to run away from it, and to feel better. Again, Disco. Disco itself was in an era that was already dark; the later 70s were no picnick. Nixon had resigned in dishonor, Vietnam had already taken its toll on America, there was totally destroyed faith in government, the economy was a clusterf**k, crime was up, and things were just very messy. On the flip side, that was also the era Hard Rock and Metal arose, though I don't think that was related to Vietnam or disillusion or anything much topical; I think it was just a trend. But still, you have two very different things big at the same time.
 
Well, staying in the '70s, we'd have songs like:

Deep Purple - Stormbringer
Rainbow - Kill The King
Nazareth - Hair Of the Dog
AC/DC - TNT
Blue Öyster Cult - Don't Fear The Reaper
Blue Öyster Cult - Cities On Flame
Aerosmith - Rats In The Cellar
Van Halen - Runnin' With The Devil
Alice Cooper - Welcome To My Nightmare
AC/DC - Highway To Hell


Going into the '80s:

Black Sabbath - Neon Knights
Blue Öyster Cult - Veteran Of The Psychic Wars
AC/DC - Hells Bells

I could probably come up with more, but I'm tired. :)

Maybe....

Blue Öyster Cult - This Ain't The Summer of Love

Iron Maiden - Run to the Hills

From Back In Black....

AC/DC - Thunderstruck
AC/DC - Back in Black
AC/DC - Shoot to Thrill
AC/DC - You Shook Me All Night Long

I really thinkg AC/DC would have been the 'Nam sountrack for an 80s 'Nam.

EDIT:

Oh! And how 'bout this:

Survivor - Eye of the Tiger
Murray Head - One Night in Bangkok
 
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Maybe....

Blue Öyster Cult - This Ain't The Summer of Love

Iron Maiden - Run to the Hills

From Back In Black....

AC/DC - Thunderstruck
AC/DC - Back in Black
AC/DC - Shoot to Thrill
AC/DC - You Shook Me All Night Long

I really thinkg AC/DC would have been the 'Nam sountrack for an 80s 'Nam.

EDIT:

Oh! And how 'bout this:

Survivor - Eye of the Tiger
Murray Head - One Night in Bangkok

Generally, I was only going for songs from '80 - '81 and earlier, because I honestly don't see the conflict lasting longer than that. Run To The Hills is from '83.

This song, is, sadly, perfect to describe PTSD.

Would "ME-262" be relevant in this context?

Maybe. I would think Then Came The Last Days Of May might fit more.

Generally, Albums such as Black Sabbath's Heaven & Hell and Mob Rules,
Blue Öyster Cult's Fire Of Unknown Origin, AC/DC's Back In Black, Def Leppard's On Through The Night, etc. Most of the albums from this list would work well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_in_heavy_metal_music
 

pnyckqx

Banned
The military suicides thing is more a myth. Soldier suicides were no greater than normal suicide rates. It's part of that whole "Guilty Soldier" idea, which isn't true; the majority of soldiers felt no guilt for their involvement in the war, believe they were doing good for the people of South Vietnam, and said they would have done it again if they had it to do over.
Excuse me? That's misleading. Historically military suicide rates have been below that of the general population.

In fact the rate is rising for the military.

We can argue causuality at some other time in some other place with some other people, but the rate is increasing.

i'm retired military, and don't have a clue as to why this would be so, but i suspect the 'collateral damage' from repeated deployments would be a factor. The culture we have today is different from that of the Vietnam war era. Much faster, more information overload, with the military of today having to deal with issues that the Vietnam veterans did not have to deal with.

Anyway, I think you have two things that would go on with this. Anytime you have something going on, you have things that are made to be reflective of it, and things that are made to escape it. If something good happens, you have things that reflect the good, and then things that are made just to make people feel bad because they can afford to feel bad because they're pretty ok and things are ok, and they forget the feeling. It's a bit melodramatic. When you have bad things, you have things reflective of the bad things, talking about them, protesting them, capturing the moods they elicit and so on, but also things made to escape it because people just want to get away from it and feel good. This is why you had songs during the Depression like "Brother, Can You Spare A Dime", and an ungodly amount of Blues and Folk singing about the troubles going on, but you also had things that were jumpy and happy to lift people up.
I think you'd see something similar here too, and I do think that escapism already existed in the culture to run from the Vietnam. I think you'd have things that were reflective of the moods elicited by the war, reflective of it, protesting it, talking about all the other things going on related to it, and so on, but I think you'd also have things to run away from it, and to feel better. Again, Disco. Disco itself was in an era that was already dark; the later 70s were no picnick. Nixon had resigned in dishonor, Vietnam had already taken its toll on America, there was totally destroyed faith in government, the economy was a clusterf**k, crime was up, and things were just very messy. On the flip side, that was also the era Hard Rock and Metal arose, though I don't think that was related to Vietnam or disillusion or anything much topical; I think it was just a trend. But still, you have two very different things big at the same time.
Your point about Disco is taken. i don't see it as much different than the WWII veterans becoming the original bikers. Escapism and enjoyment of life would be a big thing to a guy who survived Anzio, Pork Chop Hill, or Dak To.
 
This is the song that never ends:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz6OGVCdov8

The mere 10 hour version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmcP3MShzS0

Shorter version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXbBXDGvhRI

Or sung to the tune Felice Navidad (which repeats)
it was done on the radio.

Think suicide is painless (MASH theme) and the similarly
endless guerilla wars in Mozambique/Angola which
finally in 1974 ended with the Portugese Army rebelling
across the board (in Guinea, too, if memory serves), as
well as in Portugal itself.

Those of you who know my writings, there are many
routes in the Vietnam War. The longer term one at
anywhere near 50,000 US forces in country does not
bode well, and music would steadily become more
extreme in reflecting that wound. But if somehow
a short answer was (successfully, as unsuccessfully
would have other TL and cultural reflections), a slow
simmering heat could be muted as a subcultural
music genre, why are we there sort of thing. The war
was really handy as a voodoo doll for all that ails
songwriters, a whipping boy for those conflicts past
present and future.
 
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