I remember that there was a thread about 'Saint Muhammad' a while back (where Muhammad becomes a Christian instead of founding his own religion). Now, here's a variation of that topic: what if he had become a Jew? What would be the consequences for later history?
Muhammad the Jew
- Thread starter Emperor Qianlong
- Start date
Then Muhammad won't be rejected by the Jews, unlike OTL. In fact, perhaps the Jews will even consider him as the apostle/Messiah they have been waiting for.
More details are needed, I think, but I suspect that it significantly changes Judaism. If nothing else, the Muhammadan branch of Judaism would almost certainly be a more proselytizing religion, more more active in seeking converts. Whether or not this would be a general rule, or only applicable to a certain subset of Judaism, I'm less certain of.
Hmm, now this is certainly an interesting possibility.
If I'm not mistaken, there were substantial Jewish communities in Arabia (as well as OTL Yemen) during this time. There's certainly going to be some interesting interactions with them if Muhammad starts his own branch of Judaism, though I suspect they'd get assimilated over time.
If I'm not mistaken, there were substantial Jewish communities in Arabia (as well as OTL Yemen) during this time. There's certainly going to be some interesting interactions with them if Muhammad starts his own branch of Judaism, though I suspect they'd get assimilated over time.
I admit, I haven't thought out this too much further (yes, sorry). But yeah, the idea it would be a more proselytizing variant of Judaism is kind of likely.
Hmm... another interesting idea that I haven't thought about.
I believe you are correct. In fact, when Muhammed fled to medina, there were 3 major clans of Jews in the city. To gain their support, he origionally had the muslims pray towards Jerusalem, however, he eventually betrayed them, and changed the rite to praying towards Mecca. I don't think you have to go to far to change him from starting the final religion to making the final revision to Judiaism. Maybe he is saved as a child by a Jew. The problem is going to be convincing the Jews that he is the messiah. Also, the diaspora has been ongoing for a time now. So getting the message out will be hard. Not sure whether having to convince isolated communities instead of the beurachracy of a kingdom will make things easier or harder. It also opens the question of what he does once he has secured the Arabian penninsula. Conquer Jerusalem?
EDIT: I did some checking, and discovered some interesting tidbits. Apparently, Muslims prayed towards jerusalem form the beginning, because Muhammed saw himself as a phophet of the same vein of the old Hebrew prophets. And according to muslim sources (the only ones avalible), the Jewish tribes were betraying Muhammed, and conspiring with his enemies. Not quite sure which version to believe.
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Keenir
Banned
I read once that, when Jesus was preaching, the Jews were expecting a militant up-and-at'em messiah (something of a cross between Bar Kochba and Mohammed)
by the 600s, was that still an image of the messiah held by many Jews?
Maybe when he's young he falls in love with a Jewish woman from one of the Medina tribes?
That is true, in fact the Yemenite Jews (until the creation of Israel) were among the most isolated Jewish communities. Hence why some of their foods (i.e. the fiery condiment zhoug) were still made by the original recipes.
Max Sinister
Banned
The Yemenite Jews were polygamists too. This kind of religion might appeal more to the Arabs.
The question that I now have is, would the Arabs have the same success in their conquests (ie, boost to their fighting spirit) that hey had in OTL under Islam if they were operating under Judaism in the ATL?
Keenir
Banned
I don't see why not....marry the raiding habits of the Arabs and Berbers, to the traditions and tales of Sampson, David, and Jacob...
Which reminds me; Judaism was also quite common among various Berber tribes,
so integrating the Jewish religion into Berber culture should actually be suprisingly easy.
Philip
Donor
This is correct, but perhaps Judah Maccabeus is a better model.
It was still quite common.
I don't think that the Jews would accept him as the messiah, but perhaps the Muhammedan version of Judaism would be the next "phase" of the religion, absorbing the various Jewish communities. That, plus the raiding traditions of the desert nomads, would make for a Jewish Caliphate (maybe).
One thing I'd like to say; there is no need for this Jewish Mohammed to be claiming to be the Messiah in order to be a major Jewish religious figure.
Remember, he can also claim to be 'just another prophet' like the dozens of other prophets in the Old Testament.
Even as an 'ordinary' prophet, he is still regarded as a messenger of God (if he manages to convince the Jews that he isn't a false prophet, that is
), which will give him *a lot* of influence and authority.
And the fact that Mohammed was born of pagan Arab parents doesn't neccesarily need to be a problem either - if I recall correctly, the Old Testament mentions at least one prophet who was a converted Edomite.
Remember, he can also claim to be 'just another prophet' like the dozens of other prophets in the Old Testament.
Even as an 'ordinary' prophet, he is still regarded as a messenger of God (if he manages to convince the Jews that he isn't a false prophet, that is
), which will give him *a lot* of influence and authority.And the fact that Mohammed was born of pagan Arab parents doesn't neccesarily need to be a problem either - if I recall correctly, the Old Testament mentions at least one prophet who was a converted Edomite.