IOTL, communist states never arose in western nations. Going against Marx’ predictions, the countries that would fall to communism weren’t highly industrialized capitalist nations, but rather countries with high populations of peasants such as Russia and China. It seems that the western country where communism might have been the most successful is France. What’s the most plausible way of getting a Communist or Marxist France to emerge in the 20th century?
Most plausible way to get a Communist/Marxist France?
- Thread starter Bomster
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If D-Day failed how would Germany be defeated? What strategy would the Western Allies pursue to try to relieve pressure on the Soviets? I’m skeptical of the Soviets being able to push all the way to the Atlantic but could they?
D-Day fall and the Nazist will have much more resources to throw against the Soviets, sure they will lose at the end but OTL Soviet loss where devastanting, here will be at crippling level.
Repeat the landing later or throw more resources at the Italian front and no, the Soviet don't have the capacity to push all the way to the Atlantic
Germans were going to lost war at this point no matter what. Wallies would still continue pushing through Italy and Austria. And probably Free France is going to operate with some way in France. I just can't see Soviets pushing to France. Perhaps to Rheinland with good luck. But nazis were already doomed altough probably last bit longer.
And Wallies have still something what nazis are not going to get. Nukes.
colonel
Donor
They wouldn’t have to get to the Atlantic. By taking the brunt of the battle for Europe the USSR is in a much better position when the war ends in dividing the continent. France doesn’t get an occupation zone, and with no Marshal Plan the Communists take outright control in the East and are better positioned to win elections in the west.
There is a story -seemingly on hiatus- that seemed to be going the route to an at least socialist France occuring in 1968.
Adieu, de Gaulle! A History Of The New French Revolution
Prologue: The World (XXI) "In Paris, the city is alive once more. It is the 50th celebration - and 51st anniversary of the event - of Le Jour de la Révolution, or The Day of the Revolution. From now to the Bastille Day, the whole of France will celebrate revolution and a strong commitment to...
www.alternatehistory.com
AHC - Make the WW2 Russian Advance Liberate France
I am possibly thinking of a 1943 D-Day where the Allies are turned back at the beach. Or a better Russian force under Stalin that means he does not agree defined limits of advance at Yalta. Or Maybe the Japanese go South without triggering war with America. Would this give Russia the...
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Absurd. Soviet losses in 1944 were well below replacement levels even before D-Day.
They could. They already had the upper hand and the front had been consistently moving westward since July ‘43, with losses well within the realm of sustainability and were consistently achieving encirclement’s since the winter. Getting into France before the WAllies even in a “D-Day fails” scenario would be a tall order though, since the German collapse will let them just walk right in.
Maybe a better one would be the Churchill and Truman getting a case of the stupid and attempting Unthinkable only for it to blow up in their face. As one of the innumerable political fallout of the failed operation, France erupts into Civil War as the Communist Marquis rise up in support of their Soviet brethren. With political turmoil in the US and Britain forcing them out of Germany and back towards isolationism, the Red Army moves to support the Marquis and ends the brief civil war in the communists favor
This is very popular option but I don't think this being likely. France had already left-wing government through WW1 so they hardly would pick even more leftist option. Probably France would become alt-fascist nation in such case.
"Already left-wing"? The Union Sacree eanged from the SFIO to the right--and significantly the SFIO withdrew from the govenment in September 1917. https://books.google.com/books?id=8L20DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA213 Yes, the leading party in the coalition calledf itself "Radical" but that meant very little by then, and by 1919 Clemeceau was supporting the right-wing National Bloc. Raymond Poincare was cerainly nobody's idea of a leftist!
The real reason I doubt the likelihood of a successful far-left revolutionn in France in the event of defeat is this: Is a victorious Germany going to allow a Communist France--a state that would be preaching revolution to the workers of the world, including Germany? I doubt it, for the same reasons I doubt that the Bolsheviks could survive a German victory; see https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...n-a-cp-victory-scenario.411058/#post-14323600 At the very leasst, I can't see Germany tolerating far-left governments on *both* her west and east.
There is an analogy with 1871, when in effect Bismarck told Thiers: If you don't crush the Commune, we will...