Most Interesting Alt. Colonies?

[Masked Grizzly]

Part of the planned butterflies is that the Castilians start exploring a bit late, so if Britain isable to get going earlier, they could get there before Castile

Perhaps the Castillians/Spanish could be distracted a bit more with North Africa or another region in such a scenario.

Still thinking about how to butterfly away French Haiti (that remains Spanish or is part of another colony before being annexed by the US), with France instead getting a piece of Central America if not a reduced Mexico (minus Yucatan and much of Northern Mexico) or more the Guianas before losing out to the Dutch.

 

[Arkenfolm]

One thing I rarely see discussed (let alone successful) is France Antarctique in Brazil, despite it having existed OTL. Imagine if all the Southeast and South of Brazil (and much of the interior) becomes French. The French are sufficiently powerful enough throughout the Early Modern era that they could devote the effort to a successful colony there should they wish to.

3) Tempting as a Danish Canada is, I'm also a fan of dodging AH colonial-era tropes if possible. If colonization by different countries gets pushed further south than OTL, why not have the Danes hit the Eastern Seaboard at that point? It's not that much farther to go from Newfoundland to Long Island, for instance.

Is Danish Canada considered a trope? I rarely see Nordic Canada outside of "successful Vinland", and colonising it in the late 15th/16th century is fundamentally different than Vinland and adds an interesting dynamic to Northern European politics. Post-colonial politics too since if it survives (i.e. more successful than Quebec) than it would have a fundamentally different relationship with whatever country is south than Canada had OTL with the United States.

I don't know about that. It's heavily forested, isn't it? Rainforests are notorious for poor soil quality as I understand it, so even when they're cut down for agriculture it seems like ranching is more popular than farming. That seems borne out by the pre-tourism economy in the state centered on logging, cattle and rubber. I suspect they wouldn't be able to grow much sugar.

The Yucatan was important for the production of henequen, an agave fiber, so there's certainly money to be made. The problem is the Mayans. OTL they were still very numerous even after the greatest resistance stopped at the end of the 17th century and in the mid-19th century launched the notorious Caste War that gained them effective independence until 1901. So that issue weighs heavily on any Yucatan colony.

German/Danish Carolina? The land doesn't have any really valuable resources like the West Indies sugar plantations until tobacco planting (I think), so I don't think anyone is coming to take it.

It has cotton (of the sort viable even without the cotton gin) and indigo so certainly has potential agricultural resources.

 

[kasumigenx]

Portuguese Luzon and Sulawesi, Castillan Mollucas.

 

[Comte de Dordogne]

It might be interesting to see independent European colonies, totally detached from European powers.
This could then lead to mixed-race states with indigenous people who can resist disease and possess European technology (and livestock as well).

 

[Masked Grizzly]

One thing I rarely see discussed (let alone successful) is France Antarctique in Brazil, despite it having existed OTL. Imagine if all the Southeast and South of Brazil (and much of the interior) becomes French. The French are sufficiently powerful enough throughout the Early Modern era that they could devote the effort to a successful colony there should they wish to.

Quite like the idea of the French managing to colonize part of Brazil, along with an ATL Welser/German/etc equivalent of Dutch Brazil at around Rio Grande du Sol or Santa Catarina (in place of Klein-Venedig) or a surviving Hanau-India colony at around Delta Amacuro.

 

[GauchoBadger]

British Louisiana right in the aftermath of the Seven Years’ War? Such an acquisition would significantly transform settlement patterns in the region and perhaps even prevent the ARW altogether.

 

[Monter]

One thing I rarely see discussed (let alone successful) is France Antarctique in Brazil, despite it having existed OTL. Imagine if all the Southeast and South of Brazil (and much of the interior) becomes French. The French are sufficiently powerful enough throughout the Early Modern era that they could devote the effort to a successful colony there should they wish to.

Problem is France Antarctique wasn't as crown project, but a private enterprise by Huguenots fleeing the Wars of Religion.
France équinoxiale in Maranhão though was an actual state project backed by Henry IV himself, it failed due the strong Portuguese position in Brazil and lackluster French support.

 

[Jürgen]

Is Danish Canada considered a trope? I rarely see Nordic Canada outside of "successful Vinland", and colonising it in the late 15th/16th century is fundamentally different than Vinland and adds an interesting dynamic to Northern European politics. Post-colonial politics too since if it survives (i.e. more successful than Quebec) than it would have a fundamentally different relationship with whatever country is south than Canada had OTL with the United States.

There's a lot of things which are tropes without any real serious timelines behind them. But yes you're right a Camnada colonized by Denmark would be radical different even if it followed the same colonization pattern. Denmark would run such a colony much more cheaply than the French ran New France or the Dutch ran New Netherlands, which would result in a radical different administration, it wouldn't be seen as a threat by the England or the British colonies like New France or even New Netherland were.

We can get a good idea from Denmark ran all their other wastelands (Norway, Iceland and Greenland) how Denmark would run Danish Canada. We would likely see a relative laize faire governance mixed with a hard enforcement of Lutheran orthodoxy at least until the 18th century, where we would see Moravians being allowed to go missionairing among the natives. At the same time while taxes would be low, the state would use trading monopolies to extract value from the colony. Military the colony would make use of a mix of a local recruited garrison and conscripted militia. Denmark would likely treat the natives different than they did the Greenlanders, but it would be far more likely to try to attempt to integrate them as subjects to the crown, it's not unlikely that Denmark would use a medieval style baptise and vassalise tactic mixed with a forced shift to European style way of life. The early settlers would likely be criminals deported to the colony, we would likely see them being settled as serfs rather than tenant farmers as in Denmark. Their lords would likely be expected to keep control over them and enforce royal degrees on them (like conscripting them). While the clergy would serve as civil servants keeping records, report back to the king and as representant of the king to the lords and freemen.

 

[AltoRegnant]

British Louisiana right in the aftermath of the Seven Years’ War? Such an acquisition would significantly transform settlement patterns in the region and perhaps even prevent the ARW altogether.

See, the British in the Mississippi would be interesting, but with the POD i'm thinking of, it would be too different, and the American Revolution would have been so butterflied it would be insane.

it wouldn't be seen as a threat by the England or the British colonies

Given the rest of what you say, I dunno about this. The low taxes would draw a lot of Germanic Lutherans to it, to a point that low taxes would be offset by the inflated amount of taxpayers. Especially if they try to integrate the natives. This means the English Colonies lose a chunk of their population from otl to ttl's Nyt Vinland. That could be a bigger threat to the English colonies than New France or New Netherlands if the english don't conquer them quickly enough (and if they did it would be a moot point and wasted narrative space)

 

[Jürgen]

Given the rest of what you say, I dunno about this. The low taxes would draw a lot of Germanic Lutherans to it, to a point that low taxes would be offset by the inflated amount of taxpayers. Especially if they try to integrate the natives. This means the English Colonies lose a chunk of their population from otl to ttl's Nyt Vinland. That could be a bigger threat to the English colonies than New France or New Netherlands if the english don't conquer them quickly enough (and if they did it would be a moot point and wasted narrative space)

It wouldn't be seen as a threat, it could very well be a far bigger long term threat than New France ever was. But that wouldn't only become clear rather late, and if Danish Canada (which would likely be more Danish St. Lawrence watershed and Hudson Bay[1] than Canada alone) can compete with the British colonies in population, it will be impossible to do anything about it.

As for British conquest of Danish Canada, it could be a unique narrative point, a British Canada which replace Catholic French speakers with Lutheran Danish speakers. It would be a very different Canada, and it could be far more similar to South Africa's White population, split between a non-English speaking majority and a English speaking minority, with the English dominating the early colony/dominion only to lose increasing influence and power to thenon-English speakers.

[1]the establishment of Hudson Bay Company would be unlikely here, Denmark with a overlordship of Greenland and a already active presense on the American mainland would be far more likely to invest in such a company than France was.

 

[Madeleine Birchfield]

I'm thinking of doing a TL which, due to a POD in the Castilian War of Succession, creates very different colonies. I have a few ideas but want to know what you guys think?

Hanseatic League trading posts/colonies in North America.

 

[Hvalrossen]

There's a lot of things which are tropes without any real serious timelines behind them. But yes you're right a Camnada colonized by Denmark would be radical different even if it followed the same colonization pattern. Denmark would run such a colony much more cheaply than the French ran New France or the Dutch ran New Netherlands, which would result in a radical different administration, it wouldn't be seen as a threat by the England or the British colonies like New France or even New Netherland were.

We can get a good idea from Denmark ran all their other wastelands (Norway, Iceland and Greenland) how Denmark would run Danish Canada. We would likely see a relative laize faire governance mixed with a hard enforcement of Lutheran orthodoxy at least until the 18th century, where we would see Moravians being allowed to go missionairing among the natives. At the same time while taxes would be low, the state would use trading monopolies to extract value from the colony. Military the colony would make use of a mix of a local recruited garrison and conscripted militia. Denmark would likely treat the natives different than they did the Greenlanders, but it would be far more likely to try to attempt to integrate them as subjects to the crown, it's not unlikely that Denmark would use a medieval style baptise and vassalise tactic mixed with a forced shift to European style way of life. The early settlers would likely be criminals deported to the colony, we would likely see them being settled as serfs rather than tenant farmers as in Denmark. Their lords would likely be expected to keep control over them and enforce royal degrees on them (like conscripting them). While the clergy would serve as civil servants keeping records, report back to the king and as representant of the king to the lords and freemen.

Was Southern Norway really a depopulated wasteland? Keep in mind the population was concentrated at the coast.

Would be interesting if a Dano-Norwegian settler colony would change the demographic growth patter in Denmark-Norway? By offloading the 'excess population', might family formation and thus population growth rate increase?

Also where would most colonists come from? I suspect that Western Norwegians and Faroese would be overrepresented compared to Danes. While Icelanders would periodically come in large waves instead of famishing during bad times.

See, the British in the Mississippi would be interesting, but with the POD i'm thinking of, it would be too different, and the American Revolution would have been so butterflied it would be insane.

Given the rest of what you say, I dunno about this. The low taxes would draw a lot of Germanic Lutherans to it, to a point that low taxes would be offset by the inflated amount of taxpayers. Especially if they try to integrate the natives. This means the English Colonies lose a chunk of their population from otl to ttl's Nyt Vinland. That could be a bigger threat to the English colonies than New France or New Netherlands if the english don't conquer them quickly enough (and if they did it would be a moot point and wasted narrative space)

English conquest is not an inevitability.

 

[Starforce]

A Danish or French east coast is interesting. Does that mean the 13 colonies in whole? Imagine a French US.

 

[Hvalrossen]

It wouldn't be seen as a threat, it could very well be a far bigger long term threat than New France ever was. But that wouldn't only become clear rather late, and if Danish Canada (which would likely be more Danish St. Lawrence watershed and Hudson Bay[1] than Canada alone) can compete with the British colonies in population, it will be impossible to do anything about it.

As for British conquest of Danish Canada, it could be a unique narrative point, a British Canada which replace Catholic French speakers with Lutheran Danish speakers. It would be a very different Canada, and it could be far more similar to South Africa's White population, split between a non-English speaking majority and a English speaking minority, with the English dominating the early colony/dominion only to lose increasing influence and power to thenon-English speakers.

[1]the establishment of Hudson Bay Company would be unlikely here, Denmark with a overlordship of Greenland and a already active presense on the American mainland would be far more likely to invest in such a company than France was.

If we assume that Dano-Norwegian Canada is similar to OTL French Canada, then i don't think it can compete demographically with the American eastern seaboard.

Or instead of replicating something similar of South African dynamics, we might see the Scandinavian speakers adopt English as a mother tongue.

 

[Jürgen]

Was Southern Norway really a depopulated wasteland? Keep in mind the population was concentrated at the coast.

I could also have included Jutland in the wasteland areas, but it was also said with tongue-in-cheek, but absolute Denmark was never really good at taxing any production beside grain, the Danish state budget until the late 18th century pretty much came from the islands, the duchies, sound dues and trading monopolies. The cattle produced in the Jutish heath the Danish state was barely able to earn money on, with most of money going directly to the farmer both commoners and nobles.

Would be interesting if a Dano-Norwegian settler colony would change the demographic growth patter in Denmark-Norway? By offloading the 'excess population', might family formation and thus population growth rate increase?

Yes, it will likely lead to earlier marriages if surplus population have a clear future ahead of them.

Also where would most colonists come from? I suspect that Western Norwegians and Faroese would be overrepresented compared to Danes. While Icelanders would periodically come in large waves instead of famishing during bad times.

I would suspect that a early colony will primarily see criminals comes from the stronghold of royal power (The islands, the duchies and the Norwegian possessions). Later I would expect farmers mostly to be Danes and Germans, while miners, hunters and forest workers would come from Norway. The Forest Finns May be overrepresented as much of Canada shield is great for their slash and burn agriculture.

 

[Gabingston]

Or instead of replicating something similar of South African dynamics, we might see the Scandinavian speakers adopt English as a mother tongue.

I imagine that those Anglicized Nords would sound like characters from Fargo (the movie, not the city in North Dakota).

 

[Hvalrossen]

I could also have included Jutland in the wasteland areas, but it was also said with tongue-in-cheek, but absolute Denmark was never really good at taxing any production beside grain, the Danish state budget until the late 18th century pretty much came from the islands, the duchies, sound dues and trading monopolies. The cattle produced in the Jutish heath the Danish state was barely able to earn money on, with most of money going directly to the farmer both commoners and nobles.

Mining too, was competently taxed (i think), allthough there was little of it.

I would suspect that a early colony will primarily see criminals comes from the stronghold of royal power (The islands, the duchies and the Norwegian possessions). Later I would expect farmers mostly to be Danes and Germans, while miners, hunters and forest workers would come from Norway. The Forest Finns May be overrepresented as much of Canada shield is great for their slash and burn agriculture.

I think Norwegians will be overrepresented among the early pioneers. Later i think Danes, Norwegians and Germans will all come in great numbers.

Miners are more likely to be German, i think. Most mining enterprises in Norway, brought skilled labour from Germany.

Is the forest Finns really going to play a large role? They lived in the kingdom of Sweden (Todays Sweden and Finland) mostly. Besides such practices could be adopted or developed by Norwegian, Danish, German, Icelandic, etc settlers.

 

[Jürgen]

Or instead of replicating something similar of South African dynamics, we might see the Scandinavian speakers adopt English as a mother tongue.

Unlikely, unless the conquest happen pretty early after the Danish colonization. The “Danes“ as Lutherans would have pretty high literacy rate and Danish would have prestige as the ecclesial language. When we saw a shift away from Danish in southern Sweden, Gotland and South Schleswig, this was caused by the use of other languages as ecclesial languages, and the process haven’t even finished yet, with a significant Danish speaking minority in South Schleswig and several South Swedish dialect being more mutual intelligible with Danish than standard Swedish.

 

[Wendell]

How about one power, probably not the Dutch, colonizing New Guinea in the early to mid nineteenth century?

 

[Madhukar_Shah]

How about a Dutch Australia, with significant immigration of Indonesians, Sri Lankan’s and Indians to form a disunited underclass under a small Dutch ruling class?