Most consensual/divisive weapons post 1900

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Noticed how everybody loves some weapons and some other weapons can split history buffs into opposing rioting crowds just by being mentioned? Here's a sample for air,sea and land
Air: most consensual -Spitfire
Most divisive: Me262

Sea: most consensual - Essex
most Divisive - Bismarck

Land: most consensual - Colt 1911A1
Most divisive: Panther

Can you think of some more choices? And did the Germans made divisive choices on purpouse?
 
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LostCosmonaut

I think German weapons are so divisive because on paper they look good (in many cases), but often performed much worse in practice (due to issues like logistics, maintenance, etc.).

Consensual - He-177 (it sucked)

Divisive- B-29 (performance vs. Cost/Mechanical issues)
 
Meadow

Meadow

The MG42, PzIV and MP40 are pretty positively consensual as German weapons go, but it's true that a lot of their serious kit doesn't have a uniform opinion on whether it was a) any good or b) fit to purpose (see 'I can put bombs on the 262 because I'm Herman Goering lol').

For bolt action rifles, the SMLE nos 1 and 3 are probably the most consensually regarded as good. The Springfield is actually quite controversial as these things go, with some saying it's a good piece of kit and others that, regardless, it's a Mauser knockoff. Carcanos get slagged off a lot but they have a mixed reputation in terms of accuracy and reliability (insert JFK joke).
 

Hipsterredneck556

Most consensual assualt rifle: AK-47/AKM

Most Devisive assualt rifle: Any AR-15 derived weapon. People will bitch about any variant of the M16 being "unreliable"

Most consensual tank: Centurion. I've never heard any complaints.

Most devisive tank: Sherman. Either it is a death trap or the greatest allied tank.

Most consensual fighter jet: F-16 series

Most devisive fighter jet: F-35 series. Some people just have it out for the Lightning II.
 

Hipsterredneck556

AdA said:
Land: most consensual - Colt 1911A1
Most divisive: Panther
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There is plenty of hate for the M1911. Overly complex compared to some of John Brownings other weapons (Browning HP), rediculously complex compared to Glocks, CZs, or SIGs. Has a low magazine capacity, barely acceptable sights on the government models, also has some ergonomic issues.

All of that being said, it is the manliest handgun ever made. :D
 

BigWillyG

Hipsterredneck556 said:
There is plenty of hate for the M1911. Overly complex compared to some of John Brownings other weapons (Browning HP), rediculously complex compared to Glocks, CZs, or SIGs. Has a low magazine capacity, barely acceptable sights on the government models, also has some ergonomic issues.

All of that being said, it is the manliest handgun ever made. :D
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Says a lot about the 1911 design that the weapons like Glocks, CZs and SIGs which people are saying are better are at least 50 years younger than the 1911.

For world war era US small arms.-

The M-2 .50 cal might beat out the M1911 for most consensual.

The most divisive are probably the M-1 Carbine and the BAR. British historians especially seem to bash the BAR alot.
 

Hipsterredneck556

BigWillyG said:
Says a lot about the 1911 design that the weapons like Glocks, CZs and SIGs which people are saying are better are at least 50 years younger than the 1911.

For world war era US small arms.-

The M-2 .50 cal might beat out the M1911 for most consensual.

The most divisive are probably the M-1 Carbine and the BAR. British historians especially seem to bash the BAR alot.
Click to expand...

Most of the controversy surrounding the M1 Carbine was bullshit. The whole "bullets wouldn't penetrate frozen NK clothing" thing was a myth.

Linky: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot36.htm
 

BigWillyG

Hipsterredneck556 said:
Most of the controversy surrounding the M1 Carbine was bullshit. The whole "bullets wouldn't penetrate frozen NK clothing" thing was a myth.

Linky: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot36.htm
Click to expand...

Never heard about frozen clothing. Just the layers and quilting worn, especially by the Chinese to deal with Korean winters. The biggest issue with the carbine that has good evidence if the design not being reliable when changed to selective fire in the M-2 version. Still makes more sense than the critiques of the BAR. A lot of firearms historians, especially British ones like to unfavorably compare it to the Bren gun while ignoring the very different tactical doctrines of how each was used.
 

Hipsterredneck556

BigWillyG said:
Never heard about frozen clothing. Just the layers and quilting worn, especially by the Chinese to deal with Korean winters. The biggest issue with the carbine that has good evidence if the design not being reliable when changed to selective fire in the M-2 version. Still makes more sense than the critiques of the BAR. A lot of firearms historians, especially British ones like to unfavorably compare it to the Bren gun while ignoring the very different tactical doctrines of how each was used.
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I agree about the BAR. It is a completely different beast from the Bren in every respect.
 

Gunnarnz

BigWillyG said:
Says a lot about the 1911 design that the weapons like Glocks, CZs and SIGs which people are saying are better are at least 50 years younger than the 1911.
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Err... I'm not a firearms expert, but the Browning Hi-Power has a pretty good reputation and it's not 50 years younger, is it?
 

BigWillyG

Hipsterredneck556 said:
Meh, only 14 years younger than the M1911. Good reputation, other than some complaining about the magazine disconect and the trigger pull.
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I was thinking about the non-Browning designs like the Glocks, CZs and SIGs. The High Power was basically alone in magazine capacity until the 70s and 80s wasn't it?
 

Hipsterredneck556

BigWillyG said:
I thought so. The only pistol with a similar mag capacity to the HP in all my sources was the Schnellfeur versions of the C/96 which are really different from your standard service pistol.
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I have seen a picture of a 14 round M1911 magazine from WWI in a book, but it was a custom piece of kit.
 

BigWillyG

Hipsterredneck556 said:
I have seen a picture of a 14 round M1911 magazine from WWI in a book, but it was a custom piece of kit.
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I think I've seen the same thing. I have a book called Air Power which follows warplanes from WWI to to 1980ish and there's a long magazine Browning in .455 Webley with a long magazine built by the RFC for air combat early in WWI. Apparently certain ones were also modified to fire on full auto.
 
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Meadow said:
The MG42, PzIV and MP40 are pretty positively consensual as German weapons go, but it's true that a lot of their serious kit doesn't have a uniform opinion on whether it was a) any good or b) fit to purpose (see 'I can put bombs on the 262 because I'm Herman Goering lol').

For bolt action rifles, the SMLE nos 1 and 3 are probably the most consensually regarded as good. The Springfield is actually quite controversial as these things go, with some saying it's a good piece of kit and others that, regardless, it's a Mauser knockoff. Carcanos get slagged off a lot but they have a mixed reputation in terms of accuracy and reliability (insert JFK joke).
Click to expand...

Agreed on the MG42. Some people dislike the high rate of fire and would prefer a Bren type Quick Barrel Change handle but that's minor.
The PzIV invariably leads to nasty, should have been canceled earlier, should have been up gunned earlier, better value than the Pamther, etc discussions.
The MP40 is liked, but not consensual as being the best. Often described as too expensive vs the Sten or the US "grease gun", and anything in 9mm Para will cause some controversy with the .45 Brigade.
The SMLE is universally admired, but will always lead to the SMLE vs Mauser split.
 

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BigWillyG said:
Says a lot about the 1911 design that the weapons like Glocks, CZs and SIGs which people are saying are better are at least 50 years younger than the 1911.

For world war era US small arms.-

The M-2 .50 cal might beat out the M1911 for most consensual.

The most divisive are probably the M-1 Carbine and the BAR. British historians especially seem to bash the BAR alot.
Click to expand...

Agreed on the M2 being enormously consensual. But some people will argue that the barrel adjustment is a nedless complication, and there will allways be a debate about alternative calibers and weather the Russian HMG are better.
 

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BigWillyG said:
I think I've seen the same thing. I have a book called Air Power which follows warplanes from WWI to to 1980ish and there's a long magazine Browning in .455 Webley with a long magazine built by the RFC for air combat early in WWI. Apparently certain ones were also modified to fire on full auto.
Click to expand...

There was a popular modification for the Colt that provided it with an extended magazine and converted it to full auto. It features prominently in James Ellroy novels.
 
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