Most able German general WW2

Which of the below was in your opinion the most able German General in World War 2

  • von Bock

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Brauchitsch

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Guderian

    Votes: 12 8.3%
  • Halder

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Heinrici

    Votes: 8 5.5%
  • Hoth

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jodl

    Votes: 2 1.4%
  • Kesselring

    Votes: 14 9.7%
  • von Kleist

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • von Manstein

    Votes: 59 40.7%
  • Model

    Votes: 5 3.4%
  • Paulus

    Votes: 2 1.4%
  • Rommel

    Votes: 31 21.4%
  • von Rundstedt

    Votes: 10 6.9%
  • Student

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    145
  • Poll closed .
The question really is about ability rather than morals, and I guess its rooted in my perception that the Germans managed against increasing odds to carry the war on and defend frequently very well against superior numbers and equipment.

Ironically I think in the UK we almost want there to be a 'good' general who we can like because they weren't a Nazi, Rommel filled that position for a long time and now von Manstein seems to attract those sorts of comments as well.

Well, you can see from the comments here about people not wanting to select people from the Waffen SS or generals who were too involved in the Final Solution even though on paper morals shouldn't matter to this question, but obviously it does to alot of people.

The 8th Army fell in love with Rommel because he respected them and was out in the front with them while their generals were way behind the lines and often hanging out in Alexandra. The press liked him because he would invite Allied reporters to take pictures and talk to him. All this of course got back to Washington and London.

After the Final Solution came out with the end of the war the Jewish community for his actions on behalf of Jews various places during the war pretty much gave the U.S. and England the thumbs up for using him as as a Cold War symbol for 'the good German' to the West and to support German rearmament inside Germany. Of course his death made the story all the easier to make into TV shows and films.

But, generals popularity often get conflated with their abilities and it did very much suit the American and British governments interest in selling the story during and after the war that they beat the best Germany had. How effective was he as a general? Taking a public opinion poll on the matter isn't the best way to decide nor is focusing on what most historians at any given time are saying as they are far from unbias. One has to make ones own judgement from looking at the facts.
 
I'm not sure I buy the argument that Nazi generals were inferior because they ultimately lost the war. The Germans did lose the war, but the primary cause was not their military leadership. For an easy example, Kesselring gets knocked because he lost in Italy. OK, but the logical extension of that argument is that Mark Clark was a better battlefield commander than Smiling Albert. Yeah, right...
 
fine; state reasons

if I might answer the same question on comrade Rubicon's behalf

Model was a brilliant division commander; 3rd panzer was the single most effective German formation in Barbarossa and took in excess of 200k prisoners, his formation was instrumental in several decisive German victories including Smolensk and Kiev

Unfortunately for him, he didn't command an active offensive sector in 1942, however his handeling of the 9th army on the defensive inflicted major wounds on the red army (averaging about 8-1 body count in favor of the Germans in the three defensive battles)

Model was against Kursk, plus he got dicked over in the allottment of new armored vehichles (which almost exclusively went to AGS) and when it went nowhere after 2 days he threatened to resign if sector's attack wouldn't be called off (in 1943 you could still do that)


His time at AG command must be looked at in context, in 1942 and 1943 you could disobey orders/threaten resignation and lie to Hitler's face so long as you were ultimately successful (as Manstein and Rommel got away with in this period).... 1944 and 1945 Hitler was so paranoid and blood thirsty that this was no longer an option, disobeying a fuhrerbefel was now a one way ticket to being relieved if you were lucky and shot if you weren't. Model thought the ardennes offensive was stupid, but this was also a time where the court of honor was operating sending plenty of officers to be shot, how much could he really object; even within that context he did about as well as he could under the circumstances
 
I'm not sure I buy the argument that Nazi generals were inferior because they ultimately lost the war. The Germans did lose the war, but the primary cause was not their military leadership. For an easy example, Kesselring gets knocked because he lost in Italy. OK, but the logical extension of that argument is that Mark Clark was a better battlefield commander than Smiling Albert. Yeah, right...

I thought Mark Clark was one of the best German commanders in Italy.
 
Ok

The context of German army performance in the second half of the war is one of failure and defeat. There may be many reasons for this that commanders could not influence but it does make judging their abilities difficult.

To take a specific example. Between 15 June and the end of July 1944 the allies advance more or less from Rome to Pisa/Antona, Cobra succeeds and of course Bagration opens.

But Busch commanding AGC at the time has the smallest German force against the largest allied and 2 panzer/panzer grenadier formations against the 4 available to Kesselring and 8 in Normandy. Busch infantry formations were no more than 50% strength and for the last six months at least half of his infantry replacements were ethnic Russians.

I can tell you that the retreat in Italy was less damaging than either Normandy or AGC but I don’t think you can say that was Kesselring’s skill, as opposed to the fact he had proportionately more, better motivated forces available and better terrain to fight over or that Busch did not do a brilliant job with the material available.

Compare that with the Army Group Commanders from early war and you can make a comparison with the ability of say Bock and Rundstedt, Personally I think Bock had a more successful period in command in Poland, France and Russia and showed, at least at his level of command, increasing skill and innovation both technically and operationally which is the reason I would go for him off the list.

It’s a methodological problem more than anything.

However.

I would say that Kesselring was no more able than his opposite number – Alexander - as army group commander, and I would say that Veitinghoff, Senger and Mackensen (As well as Kesselring) were more able than Clarke as an army commander. Clarke is only Army Group from December 44. as to Kesselring’s ability compared with other German commanders – he had proportionately more, significantly more resources better terrain and lost. Its not a stellar performance.

If you are not going to launch Typhoon, what’s the plan. The entire schooling of the German officer corps is around offensive action, sitting around waiting to get hit is no part of the schooling so of course Bock advocated an attack. I do not recall any higher German officer arguing for anything but continued attack.

Also I have difficulty in seeing any reasonable criticism of the 2nd Kharkov counterattack I mean it did annihilate the entire soviet attacking force. Normally the criticism of von Bock is around the Voronezh fighting some weeks later – and strangely does not include Hoth – the actual commander involved. Always struck me as an excuse to fire a guy Hitler did not want more than a real criticism.

No question of Model’s performance up to being promoted from 9th army which was superb. But excellent division commanders are the norm for the German army in ww2 and after that it’s at best average which makes me think his ability only really shines in the specific circumstances of 9th army in 42. I think there are others (Bock, Kluge Kleist Rundstedt on the list) that had more successful careers showing more ability, but thats a judgement thing
 
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