Mosley as Hitler?

Something that annoys me is the trope that Mosley would be a British Hitler. I have my doubts. Mosley was of a higher social class, and I think he would be more of a Franco. What do you all think?
 
Mosley was of a higher social class

Well, proper English breeding and all, eh wot? after all, he's not one of the lower sort -- German, or Cockney, or anything like that. :rolleyes:

I take your point, though. A man granted an elevated, privileged social standing just because of his class... sure, seems less likely that he'd have vicious, murderous "gutter" instincts. Why should he? The pressure of trying to enforce and maintain a fascist system might warp him to eventually do some pretty ruthless things, though.

I don't subscribe to the idea that a higher-class person is automatically a decent (i.e. superior) sort, however.
 
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He seemed more interested initially in corporate state ideas

I really must do more reading about the fellow.

My view, though, is that while not all such folk are monsters, trying to impose and sustain an authoritarian, fascist system is bound to call for harsh measures. People will only be shot in the head "for the greater good", of course, but it's still going to involve some seriously ugly deeds. Let Mosley acquire power, and within five years his regime will be "disappearing" people in pretty large numbers. It's part of the game. Would Mosley end up "as bad as Hitler"? To the guy he orders killed, the answer will likely be "Yes".

Edit: By the way, the fact that he married his second wife in Goebbels' house in 1936 implies some things.
 
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Something that annoys me is the trope that Mosley would be a British Hitler. I have my doubts. Mosley was of a higher social class, and I think he would be more of a Franco. What do you all think?

I agree here. Mosley was also more of a political maverick than Hitler. While Mosley was a member of both Labour and the Conservatives, and his own New Party before finally forming his own fascist outfit, Hitler started his political career directly in the NSDAP. That's why I see Mosley more as a British Mussolini, who already had an established demeanour through being involved with the Socialist Party.

A potential "British Hitler" was Arnold Leese, due to his extreme antisemitism. While Mosley's antisemitism seemed to be more functional, for Hitler antisemitism wasn't just one crucial part of fascist ideology, but the very core of his political thinking.
 
I agree here. Mosley was also more of a political maverick than Hitler. While Mosley was a member of both Labour and the Conservatives, and his own New Party before finally forming his own fascist outfit, Hitler started his political career directly in the NSDAP. That's why I see Mosley more as a British Mussolini, who already had an established demeanour through being involved with the Socialist Party.

A potential "British Hitler" was Arnold Leese, due to his extreme antisemitism. While Mosley's antisemitism seemed to be more functional, for Hitler antisemitism wasn't just one crucial part of fascist ideology, but the very core of his political thinking.

I didn't know about Leese. Guess he (and the people reading his pamphlets and magazines) prove that "serious" antisemitism isn't the property of any single nation.

Ugh.

Here's what I could imagine: Mosley (somehow) puts together a fascist governmental structure (ASB, but just for discussion). It would take someone like him (not-obviously insane, a member of the existing political structure, and upper class) to do this. He co-opts Leese into joining at some point. Eventually, Leese has built up his own following, and ousts Mosley on the charge that he is ignoring Jewish "domination" over Britain.

Then things really get ugly.

And I guess we all get to feel better because the real villain isn't upper class. :)
 
If Moseley were ever to succeed in controlling the British State the I suspect he would be more Stalinist than Fascist. His corporate state ideas bridged Mussolini's Fascism and the Five Year Plan and collectivism of the Stalinist era
 
If Moseley were ever to succeed in controlling the British State the I suspect he would be more Stalinist than Fascist. His corporate state ideas bridged Mussolini's Fascism and the Five Year Plan and collectivism of the Stalinist era

Hmm, where would one locate a British gulag?
 

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
I would think it would be located in one of Britain's colonies, Britain's version of the French penal colony of Devil's Island.

The Hebrides, like St Kila, are remote enough; although the same could be said about the Falkland Islands.
 
The island sounds plausible - a similar thing was done in Yugoslavia with the prison camp island Goli Otok. I think the first Soviet gulag was actually located on Novaja Semlja.

On the other hand, who says that concentration camps have to be located in far-off locations? In Nazi Germany, many of them were actually quite close to major towns.
 
Something that annoys me is the trope that Mosley would be a British Hitler. I have my doubts. Mosley was of a higher social class, and I think he would be more of a Franco. What do you all think?

I would have to state that Hitler is in a league of his own.
The willful extinction of a people is quite unusual in historical terms. Banishment has happened numerous times, but preventing their escape to kill them, that is not seen to often in the book of evil dictators
Apart from that, ruling classes have had no problem in cultivating disdain for other classes. He could potentially be extremely ruthless and even Stalin level after cultivating some level of paranoia, but not likely anywhere near Hitler.
 
Mosley...

Oswald Mosley was a Fascist, not a Nazi, so more in the style of a Mussolini or a Franco.

Had the Germans invaded, he would not have been a British Petain. Indeed, reading his memoirs, there's the view Mosley would have encouraged resistance to the occupiers from the BUF. By then, he was in Brixton prison and once the Germans realised he wouldn't be of any help, he'd probably have stayed there but guarded by German soldiers rather than the British police.

If you are looking for a British collaborator to be the "friendly" face (albeit the puppet with strings pulled by the Reich Kommissioner) of the New Order, I offer two possibilities.

Samuel Hoare (of Hoare-Laval pact fame) was in 1940, I believe, British Ambassador to madrid but he could have returned and basically resurrected Hoare-Laval under German control. Kenneth Macksey offers Major General JFC Fuller as the military alternative and Fuller's biographer doesn't argue the possibility Fuller could have taken on the job of heading a puppet British Government.
 
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