Moskva class Assault troop carriers

I don't know much about the Soviets refitting their ships, we know they always developed newer versions of missiles and fire control etc, but they never seemed to do any major upgrades to modernize ships once they were built. For example, you'd expect that the Kara and Kresta II ships would have their SA-N-3's replaced with SA-N-7's when they entered service to improve their anti-air capabilities, or replacing the SA-N-4 with the SA-N-9 for the same role. But the Soviets didn't really do this. They did it on two classes, the Kiev and Kirov, with the last Kirov replacing their SA-N-4's with 9's and changing their gun systems, but this was never done on a larger scale. I would assume they had a reason for it, probably something along keeping the ships ready in case war breaks out. If war breaks out, you will need everything you've got and its no good if a cruisers in the yard for half a year getting her missile system replaced, by the time she's ready, the war will be over.

It has more to do with their industries unable to keep up with everything, especially on higher end stuff:

Conway's all the World's Fighting Ships 1947-1995 said:
Industrial productivity has never been altogether satisfactory, particularly in such new fields as electronics. By the early 1980s many new warships were going to sea without key electronic systems, and sometimes even without portions of their armament. The Soviets did continue to develop innovative prototypes, and sometimes they were able to acquire electronic components from the West. Overall, however, it seems unlikely that the system could compete with the Western powers in the ongoing electronic revolution. Unfortunately, the Soviets had no Khrushchev who could envisage some radical military reaction comparable to the 'revolution in military affairs'. The post-Khrushchev settlement, in which all segments of the Soviet system were allowed to develop much as they liked, precluded that. In effect, the costs of maintaining standing forces and building the sort of forces already in production, could not be sustained.

In this economic context I suspect upgrading old ships might just be on the lower priority... which meant it was not gonna happen. The bigass ships that did get the refits was probably because they're bigass and important, so they warrant the upgrades.
 
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Very informative Kalga :) If I was to build a Soviet era LH(A) or LH(D) I'd base it on the Berezina as a starting point really.
 
what did they hope to achieve with such small raids ?

The follow on forces will likely meet big bigger and better prepared defences so was it even possible ?

They were not raids. The initial small landing forces were reconnaissance in force so to speak. In most cases they overcame weak Japanese defenses, then larger groups of regiment, brigade or division size were landed. The Japanese combat worthy forces were to few to counter at all these locations. They were trying to depend on third and fourth rate units to fill in. In at least one location the landing force got into trouble & the op there eventually abandoned. Elsewhere the Japanese had to deal with multiple threat axis, but unlike the Germans in Russian and the Ukraine they lacked armored corps to deal with it.
 

destiple

Banned
^ So soviet marines would be leading these landing forces ?
Which island where these excercises on ? Honshu or Hokkaido?

DId the japanese have any contingency plans to retake the Kurils ? DId they practice for that ?
 

destiple

Banned
Just upgrade the ASW sonar and modernise other armaments. If anything better C3C radars and FCS could improve another battle-group that NATO would have to worry about.
Maybe add the Rastrub metel missile complex ? given its ASW role

Can the torpedo tubes be refitted to the Moskova if they can fire the SSN-15 and SSN-16 ASW missiles ?
 
Maybe add the Rastrub metel missile complex ? given its ASW role

Can the torpedo tubes be refitted to the Moskova if they can fire the SSN-15 and SSN-16 ASW missiles ?
sounds good since those are 1970s developments it would make sense then/80s etc, but not now since there are reportedly on 100 missiles left as of 2006?

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=RPK-2+Vyuga
https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Metel+Anti-Ship+Complex

looks like the OP suggested such changes, I just think the ASW & Convoy interdiction was too important .
 
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destiple

Banned
Can the Moskova class ships be modified to carry the Mi-8 or Mi-17 helos ? Was there any possibility of that ?
 

Deleted member 9338

The Moskva along with a Ivan Rogov and/or an Alligator would make an effective command ship. The deck would assist in cross ship restowing of gear as in the Falklands. Not an LHA but still very useful.
 

destiple

Banned
The Moskva along with a Ivan Rogov and/or an Alligator would make an effective command ship. The deck would assist in cross ship restowing of gear as in the Falklands. Not an LHA but still very useful.
Thanks ,Can you explain this in a bit more detail if you have time
also can the ropucha class assist in this as well ?
 

BlondieBC

Banned
The major job of the Soviet Navy would have been to try and restrict the flow of troops and supplies across the Atlantic, a task for which a few Moskva variant assault ships serve no useful purpose (not even seizing Iceland a la Clancy). There is zero task for them in the Med, and in the Black Sea assaults on Turkey would be better done by air assault and meeting with land forces. In the Pacific, the Japanese forces would make life miserable for any serious assault force attempting a landing to say nothing of the US forces. The only realistic use for amphibious forces for the Soviets would be in operations against Denmark and the Baltic exits for which a ship the size of a Moskva is not helpful. The potential use of a Moskva class, or several, in conjunction with other amphibious vessels, would be to leapfrog along the northern coast of Norway.

Amphibious operations against Denmark was assigned to the Poles.
 

Deleted member 9338

They could be lashed down and covered in protective plastic for a longer journey

They could easily carry them on deck but there's no way you're getting those big helo's into the hangar.
 
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