Moroccan instead of Ottoman Empire

In the OTL, the Ottomans reached the gates of Vienna, and at the end of the Napoleonic Wars still held a large part of European territory. On the other side of Europe, the Spanish and Portuguese had reclaimed the Iberian peninsula.

How difficult would it have been for Morocco to have an empire that included much of al-Andalusia and extended to a loose association of Northern African states? And have it endure at least until 1815, even if it starts contracting like the Ottoman Empire did? Does this butterfly all European history, or can guesses be made?

For the purpose of this challenge, it's not necessary to cut off the Ottomans at the same time (indeed, by the time of the Ottoman rise, Muslim Spain was already about done). In fact, it might be interesting to compare Europe with both Morocco and Turkey, to Europe with only Morocco.
 
In the OTL, the Ottomans reached the gates of Vienna, and at the end of the Napoleonic Wars still held a large part of European territory. On the other side of Europe, the Spanish and Portuguese had reclaimed the Iberian peninsula.

How difficult would it have been for Morocco to have an empire that included much of al-Andalusia and extended to a loose association of Northern African states? And have it endure at least until 1815, even if it starts contracting like the Ottoman Empire did? Does this butterfly all European history, or can guesses be made?

For the purpose of this challenge, it's not necessary to cut off the Ottomans at the same time (indeed, by the time of the Ottoman rise, Muslim Spain was already about done). In fact, it might be interesting to compare Europe with both Morocco and Turkey, to Europe with only Morocco.

That depends ALOT on the development of the political culture in the Iberian penninsula; namely, can you avoid the rise of the Jangellian dynasty in Austria that would create a font of political legitimacy and culture of the centerally governed, Romanesque state among the Christian polities of the penninsula, or create such a thing among the more warlord-ish, Berber-tribal based structure of society that emerged among the Muslim states following the collapse of the Umyyads? If so, then it would be a fairly simple affair.
 
In the OTL, the Ottomans reached the gates of Vienna, and at the end of the Napoleonic Wars still held a large part of European territory. On the other side of Europe, the Spanish and Portuguese had reclaimed the Iberian peninsula.

How difficult would it have been for Morocco to have an empire that included much of al-Andalusia and extended to a loose association of Northern African states? And have it endure at least until 1815, even if it starts contracting like the Ottoman Empire did? Does this butterfly all European history, or can guesses be made?

For the purpose of this challenge, it's not necessary to cut off the Ottomans at the same time (indeed, by the time of the Ottoman rise, Muslim Spain was already about done). In fact, it might be interesting to compare Europe with both Morocco and Turkey, to Europe with only Morocco.

Spain not as a dominant power has a lot of butterflies. Lets say the Christians fail to Las Navas de Tolosa against the Almohads (Or the Almohads simply do not leave Iberia and adopt the Andalusian customs). You have a Moroccan state ruling Southern Iberia. This also affects marriages done by them with other Christian states and so changing alliances wars and even rulers.

So by 1815, you'd have a completely different scenario.
 
Morocco did have an empire in Iberia once, though it wasn't called Morocco at the time, I don't think. The Almohad Dynasty ruled vast tracts of what are now Spain and Portugal with their center of power in what is now Morocco. Spanish Kingdoms invaded it over a span of some centuries.
 
Morocco did have an empire in Iberia once, though it wasn't called Morocco at the time, I don't think. The Almohad Dynasty ruled vast tracts of what are now Spain and Portugal with their center of power in what is now Morocco. Spanish Kingdoms invaded it over a span of some centuries.

You also have the Almoravids who really ruled from Morocco.
 
Not only at Las Navas -- the Marinids once attempted to revive Al-Andalus, with the assistance of Granada, but were defeated at the Battle of Río Salado in 1340. Sure, a Marinid Al-Andalus would have been a bit small if compared to other historical Muslim Iberian states, but it'd end up more culturally close to Morocco as a result of it.
 
Last edited:
Not only at Las Navas -- the Marinids once attempted to revive Al-Andalus, with the assistance of Granada, but were defeated at the Battle of Río Salado in 1340. Sure, a Marinid Al-Andalus would have been a bit small if compared to other Muslim Iberian states, but it'd end up more culturally close to Morocco as a result of it.

A victory at Rio Salado would be nice. But the pressure of the Christian states in Iberia would be big.
 
Top