More than Three Major Abrahamic Religions

Suppose Christianity goes pretty much the way it did in OTL, insofar it leads to Muhammad founding Islam in Arabia as in OTL. Could there have been another major offshoot of the Abrahamic tradition?

It can be original (an ahistorical creation). Most "heresies" like Mormonism and Sufism seem very similar to the earlier religions, and it's a stretch at any rate to claim that Islam is a direct heresy of Christianity, or that Christianity is a direct heresy of Judaism.

Maybe a form of Gnosticism (or Manicheanism or Gnosticism) that's completely different from Christianity? I'm looking for something so different, it's easily distinguishable from the other faiths, with a different "culture." Take Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses. Those religions are easily seen as similar to Christianity.
 
The Christains could have really split - much more so than the Gnosticism group(s). So Catholics, Protestants, & Orthodox really go their separate ways completely, rather than the sort of loose alliance that's currently the case.

Likewise Islam could completely split between the Sunni & Shi'a groups becoming separate religions in their own right...
 
Nope, but those three denominations are essentially very similar. For the sort of difference I'm looking for, I guess the difference between Christianity and Zoroastrianism/Manicheanism/whichever-Gnosticism.
 
Nope, but those three denominations are essentially very similar. For the sort of difference I'm looking for, I guess the difference between Christianity and Zoroastrianism/Manicheanism/whichever-Gnosticism.

Actually, when you go into the details, they aren't similar at all. In fact, they could have been very, very different thanks to theology. Don't forget there are strong doctrine differences between three - especially over the salvation/faith/deeds routine.

Furthermore, several wars have been fought between the three "denominations" over such things if not other pointless dogma.

Given, say, 1 000 years of independent development, where the wars etc have ensured complete hatred of the other, & they could have turned out as different as Judahism is to Christianity as it is to Islam.
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
How about a monotheistic faith that reveres many of the same prophets and patriarchs as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, such as Adam, Abel, Seth, Enosh, Noah, Aram, Shem, Mary, Elizabeth, and John the Baptist? One that followed many of the same practices and rituals (such as baptism, abstaining from taboo foods, ritual meals in honor of the dead, fasting, marriage, and so on)? One that has a holy scripture and a cadre of priests and lay scholars to interpret it?

My only question is, where do we find such a group??
 

Keenir

Banned
How about a monotheistic faith that reveres many of the same prophets and patriarchs as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, such as Adam, Abel, Seth, Enosh, Noah, Aram, Shem, Mary, Elizabeth, and John the Baptist? One that followed many of the same practices and rituals (such as baptism, abstaining from taboo foods, ritual meals in honor of the dead, fasting, marriage, and so on)? One that has a holy scripture and a cadre of priests and lay scholars to interpret it?

My only question is, where do we find such a group??

my bet would be someone like Henry 8th of England.....if he'd gone a bit further than he had in OTL.

just a hunch. (John II's position was too tenuous, and the Old Man of the Mountain was - meh)
 
How about a monotheistic faith that reveres many of the same prophets and patriarchs as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, such as Adam, Abel, Seth, Enosh, Noah, Aram, Shem, Mary, Elizabeth, and John the Baptist? One that followed many of the same practices and rituals (such as baptism, abstaining from taboo foods, ritual meals in honor of the dead, fasting, marriage, and so on)? One that has a holy scripture and a cadre of priests and lay scholars to interpret it?

My only question is, where do we find such a group??

Salt Lake City?
 
How about a monotheistic faith that reveres many of the same prophets and patriarchs as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, such as Adam, Abel, Seth, Enosh, Noah, Aram, Shem, Mary, Elizabeth, and John the Baptist? One that followed many of the same practices and rituals (such as baptism, abstaining from taboo foods, ritual meals in honor of the dead, fasting, marriage, and so on)? One that has a holy scripture and a cadre of priests and lay scholars to interpret it?

My only question is, where do we find such a group??

Mandaeans? :rolleyes: :D
 
A very early split of Christianity, maybe at least a century or so after Jesus's death (around 33 A.D.). Basically, a few Romans convert to Christianity and decide to add a very Roman flare to it. They add the Roman pantheon, add Angels and add Jesus as the son of Jupiter. They also completley rewrite the Bible, and they celebrate traditional Roman holidays and traditions and Judeo-Christian holidays and traditions.

Now wouldn't that be a cool religion?
 
A very early split of Christianity, maybe at least a century or so after Jesus's death (around 33 A.D.). Basically, a few Romans convert to Christianity and decide to add a very Roman flare to it. They add the Roman pantheon, add Angels and add Jesus as the son of Jupiter. They also completley rewrite the Bible, and they celebrate traditional Roman holidays and traditions and Judeo-Christian holidays and traditions.

Now wouldn't that be a cool religion?

That religion would be crazy fun.
 
A couple of possibilities:

1] Someone else claims to be the Jewish Messiah (and several did) and it takes off big time

2] Smaritanism gets a robust charismatic leader who remakes it into a major force incl. proselytizing

3] Mandaeans have some potential Again a robust charosmatic leader is needed

4] Kingdom of Heavenly Peace (Taiping China)

5] Joseph Smith makes a "miraculaous recovery" from the assassination attempt and Mormonism moves still further away from mainstream Christianity
 
Take it to another, unexplored by abrahamic religion place (AKA Not Middle East/Europe) and wait for a cult to blossom. BEFORE the Abrahamic have spread

Illustration, a Christian reaches and has a successful mission in India (during, I dunno, 678). A small, plentiful cult grows, with (at first) minor alterations to Christianity. Ancestor Honorificism, a belief in Karma-like events, and philosophy maintaining the Hindu belief in Brahman or the infinite and all-encompassing God. Moving through this idea is the idea of the Identity of Seven, that God's person is not Three as attested to by Mainline Catholicism but 7 as used in the Book of Revelations. Before I go any further, this is very heretical Christian as he has translated all the New and Old Testament. Now we have everything needed for a very interesting Heresy, but not a Religion. So...

The second thing we need is someone with a claim to divine revelation. So, I'm gonna make some grasping ideas. Since I see this Religion uprising after Islam, so it needs a new idea, something with some major difference. A woman. So, I've decided Female Messianic figure. The issue is however, that a Woman is gonna be somewhat difficult to get behind, so at first I'm gonna have her use messengers to spread "The Revelation". This is helpful because it allows a messenger-to-recepient form of early evangelism.

Next, now that I have a stand out gimmick, and numerous heresies, its time for a new revelation. What does this contain? I think that I'll stick together some ideas. The FMF (Female Messianic Figure) announces to her small inner group of followers that she, like her elder brother Jesus before her, is the child of God, born of a virgin. However, her mother and her mother's husband not being of the faithful they did not mention the child not being her mother's husband's daughter.


She then goes on to teach this inner circle her message. A soothing mother like tone is given to it, rather then the somewhat Masculine tone given to Christianity, FMF's disciples begin to spread the religion, though they made slow in roads. Among the major divergences is that the Spirit (which is God, and transcends Gender) is expanded so that the Spirit is an absolute inhabitant of all living things, and that by embracing the Spirit the person becomes closer to God. The weakest acknowledgement is supposed to be Judaism, the next is supposed to be Christianity, and the next is supposed to be FMFism (you'd need a name for that.). After that, the FMF said, "You will understand the destination when you get there. If you do."

The religion doesn't begin major growth until the Islamic invasion of India, when it begins to grow by leaps and bounds as the people look for a protector God to watch over them, though its not as big a crisis as when Rome had its numerous spats of "We must become Religious!" because of Hinduism and its solidifying power, but the religion grows, and from that point onward, there is a new "heresy" of Christianity which the Catholic Church will firmly ignore until later when it realizes it is too late to impede its growth. Its like Islam all over again.

So that'd give you four.
 
I've always been intrigued by the Druze. The seem to accept a portion of all three religions of the book, and some Greek philosophers.

I read about them somewhere long ago, and they seem to be very adaptive, if nothing else. Granted I'm not sure if they could establish a world religion, as they don't make much if any attempt at all to convert others.

Just a thought:)
 
I must confess this was partly inspired by the presence of the Cathars in Doug Hoff's Empty America TL. However, they were no way in large numbers as what I'm looking for (needs to be a major branch, or rather sub-branch, of the Abrahamic tradition)

A couple of possibilities:

1] Someone else claims to be the Jewish Messiah (and several did) and it takes off big time

Good idea. Though it'll be hard to do what Jesus did in Judea afterwards. I mean, Christ really stole the show. Most of anyone afterwards in the place would look like pretenders unless they managed to have people believe they were really making some major miracle.

2] Samaritanism gets a robust charismatic leader who remakes it into a major force incl. proselytizing

Interesting idea, though could Samaritanism be adapted for an evangelical religion? Judaism already isn't really a faith based on spreading itself.

3] Mandaeans have some potential Again a robust charosmatic leader is needed

Agree.

4] Kingdom of Heavenly Peace (Taiping China)

Too late for my timescale. It'll be a heretical Christian offshoot, not it's own distinct religion.

5] Joseph Smith makes a "miraculaous recovery" from the assassination attempt and Mormonism moves still further away from mainstream Christianity

Sounds interesting as well.


I've always been intrigued by the Druze. The seem to accept a portion of all three religions of the book, and some Greek philosophers.

Nice idea, by Syncretism as in Druze, Bahai, Sikh, Unitarian Universalism, and folk religions isn't exactly what I'm looking for. Abrahamic traditions all have a sense of exclusiveness to them. An universal Abrahamic faith ceases to be truly Abrahamic, and more like, well, Unitarian Universalism. (For better or worse, probably mostly worse, this also leads to strife and fighting, probably both because of theology as well as the sort of cultures the religions came from.)

Though there are always loopholes like the Muslim idea of People of the book.

A very early split of Christianity, maybe at least a century or so after Jesus's death (around 33 A.D.). Basically, a few Romans convert to Christianity and decide to add a very Roman flare to it. They add the Roman pantheon, add Angels and add Jesus as the son of Jupiter. They also completley rewrite the Bible, and they celebrate traditional Roman holidays and traditions and Judeo-Christian holidays and traditions.

Now wouldn't that be a cool religion?

Sounds more like the "difference" I'm looking for. Also sounds a bit like the mixy religions (Mystery sects, Gnostics) that were around of the time. Maybe this thing becomes famous for a while, in the West, while Constantine does what he does in the East as in OTL?

Muse_Of_History said:
Hindu-Gnosticish heresy idea

Very cool idea, also more along the lines of what I'm looking for. What would the 7 identities of God be? Sounds like a heresy that would become a major religion in South Asia, a bit like Islam in Arabia (if you consider it to be a Christian heresy). Though it may lack the political climate that Islam thrived under initially.
 
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I hadn't given it that much thought :eek:. Probably a Mother-Identity, a Father-Idenity (Christian Father God), a Brother-Idenity (Jesus), a Gender-Ambigious-Caring-Intermediary-Care-Taker-Identity (Holy Spirit), a Sister-Idenity (FMF who really needs a name), a Lord (King)-Idenity, and lastly a Brahman-Identity the identity which takes up all space and time and is the source of all life, a Omniscent/Omnipresent/Omnipotent/Creator figure.

I'd need to understand 8th century Hindu theology better though if I were to make a firm statement though.

Yeah, it'd be a much slower rise the Christianity and Islam, but given time its Evangelical nature and attractive Hindu/Christian mix in a Hindi dominated region (non-evangelical religion), it'd make a slow steady pace, probably a bit faster during then times of Chaos (like Christianity). Not as fast as Christianity and Islam "We have a bunch of sorta apathetic pagans to convert WOOT!" Those two religions had it very, very easy to begin with. FMFism would be a slow-and-steady religion because Hinduism was, and is, an emotionally satisfying religion.
 
Abrahamic religions revere Zoroastor as an initial prophet.

Perhaps as a co-founder or something.

But that would probably butterfly away the rest.

Mormonism going more extreme(No offense) or some other branch arising.
 
Why not? Animistic Faiths still survive in the world today. Shinto, while influenced by Asian faiths is still observed, isn't it?
 
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