More successful Himyarites?

The Himyarite kingdom was the predominant ancient South Arabian state. How powerful do you think they could have gotten and maintained such power, and how?
 

Ceranthor

Banned
The problem is that pre-Islamic Arabia is a really obscure topic; there's some information on places like Hadhramawt and Saba, but no one really knows much about them. Personally, I've never heard about the Himyarites. To what extent did they control Arabia? Who did they trade with/what commodities were they famous for?

A Sabaean or Nabatean civilization that defies Rome and remains independent would actually be really interesting. Their religion would probably influence early Christianity(maybe even butterfly away Jesus), and it would either butterfly Islam away or change it drastically.
 
How is easy. Have Kaleb, Negusa Nagast, not invade in the 500's. The problem here is keeping the Himyarites independent from Persian influence, as the Yemen area did after the Aksumite client state was overthrown in the wake of Kaleb's war.

An interesting butterfly is that the Jewish state might be able to establish itself, and convert the majority of its population. If the next evangelical religion[1] rises directly from Judaism, the butterflies will be interesting indeed.

[1] That is, whatever religion fills the hole that the lack of Islam leaves.
 
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Ceranthor

Banned
I'm curious as to what influence the Axumites had over Southern Arabia. Did they ever completely conquer it, or were they limited to trade? Did they ever get close to sacking Mecca, as I've heard some people claim?
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
As I understand Himyar was troubled with internal strife, and often one that took a religious nature (pagans, Christians and Jews). So having Himyar more internally unified would be important. But of course, for Yemen to successfully survive the Islamic invasion would be hard. If Himyar could somehow convert to Islam before the invasion, perhaps the other Muslims would ignore them since they're already following the teachings of the Prophet.
 
I'm curious as to what influence the Axumites had over Southern Arabia. Did they ever completely conquer it, or were they limited to trade? Did they ever get close to sacking Mecca, as I've heard some people claim?

Sure. My primary source can be read in its entirety here.

Aksumite influence in Yemen began in the early third century. At that time, there were three kingdoms vying for dominance on the region. Himyar, located in the southern corner of the area with its capital at Zafar; Hadhramawt, located to the east of Himyar along that coast with its capital at Shabwa; and Saba', located somewhat to the north, between Himyar and Hadhramawt, with its capital at Marib. Sometime between 200 and 210, Aksum and Saba' entered into an alliance against Himyar, whom had a strong influence on the Red Sea trade that Aksum wanted for itself.

The exact sequence of events is muddy, but it appears that Saba' was victorious against Himyar. Aksum garrisoned the Himyarite capital, Zafar, and installed a governor,apparently making it a tributary province. The Sabaean king died in 210 and was succeeded by his son, Sha'ir Awtar, who was co-ruled with his brother for a time. This period was apparently relatively peaceful, with Himyar subdued and Hadhramawt kept peaceful after its king married the sister of Awtar. Awtar even helped the the king of Hadhramawt but down a rebellion in 217-18.

During these years however, the influence of Aksum, which had learned to play off the Yemeni tribal kingdoms against each other, must have grated the native peoples. In 225, King Awtar of Saba' invaded Hadhramawt and seize their capital. He also expelled the Aksumite garrison Zafar. Some sort of peace seemed to last from 230-240, after which new hostilities opened. Sorry I got to run, just read that PDF and you'll get a good summary of events :)

From pg.80 of that source sums up the cause of Kaleb's invasion fairly well.
Kaleb invaded the Yemen around 520, in order to oust the Jewish Himyarite king Yusuf Asar Yathar, who was persecuting the Christian population. This ostensible reason for mounting the expedition across the Red Sea probably covers a number of other causes, since it seems that Yusuf may have also acted against Aksumite interests, and those of her Roman allies, in the political and commercial spheres.

Upon the declaration of war, if not sometime before, Yathar had destroyed the Abyssinian church and killed the Aksumites in Zafar. The Aksumites, lead by a general named Hiuna, landed on the coast and marched to Zafar, where they defeated Yathar's forces. A christian governor by the name of Sumyafa` Ashwa` was installed, and ruled for five years until being overthrown by Abreha in 525. Kaleb sent a force of three thousand men, but that army defected. Another army was defeated by Abreha. After that, the Aksumites did not try to directly interfere in Yemen again.

Would anybody be interested in a map series?
 
One more bump and then I will let this die a natural death. You've touched one one of my favorite areas and time periods, CandyDragon :)
 
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