More Successful French-Ottoman Alliance= India Partitioned by Ottomans and France?

After reading this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Ottoman_alliance, a well referenced wikipedia article.

I came to thinking how far can a hand waving Alt historian take this?

I decided it was this far:

1532: Second Seige of Vienna Turks are defeated but not out

1536: The Formal Alliance of the Ottomans and the French is signed

1546: after 4 years of conflict a tremendous defeat is handed to the Habsburgs, Milan, Naples and Flanders is given to France and the ottomans receive a promise of portuguese withdrawal from Hormuz, 3 million ducats, the Red Sea itself, and also Suleiman declared uncontested ruler of Hungary.

1547: The War of the Schmalkaldic League begins and Francis the First rich from his conquests, does not join the League (as OTL). Instead feeling secure and a bit tired from all his Habsburg whooping decides to spend some quality time at home. He decides to convene a council of Religion to head off the possible religous conflict that was now embroiling the Holy Roman Empire. At this Council a Protestant philosopher makes a super good argument that even the Bishops agree. The Church of France now takes steps similar to the Church of England OTL.

1548: Suleiman defeats the Portuguese who didn't want to leave their Hormuz Fortresses and now decides to turn his attention on the rest of the Portuguese around the Indian Ocean. Victory after Victory is achieved as the Portuguese are helpless in the face of Ottoman Galleots or whatever.

....

1708: India is officially partitioned between Ottoman and French spheres of influence.

This TL is not serious so far, but with critique it could be.
 
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How exactly are the Ottomans projecting naval power in the Indian ocean? As far as I know, they never had a major Red Sea/Persian Gulf fleet. Sure they could sail the long way around, and there are friendly ports available, but none of them are exactly large and thriving.

To say nothing of Persia seperating the Empire from India and England's lack of reaction to all of this.

The idea is intruging and the concept of the Ottman Empire including most of the Muslim world is worth exploring, but some details need to be sorted out first.
 
The main source of the Ottoman naval power in the Indian Ocean was the Egypt's Red Sea fleet. At the Battle Diu the Portuguese battled the Egyptian fleet of about 100 ships. In 1538 Diu was assaulted by Turkish Galleys which also came from the Red Sea.

Now I think realistically the Ottomans need a major change in shipbuilding for them to project power in the Indian Ocean. Perhaps part of the alliance with France is having French shipbuilders and maybe sailors help them build a proper Indian Ocean fleet?

I wonder how Oman managed their indian ocean empire (where did their lumber come from)?

Now a possible Ottoman India POD might be to have these battles for Diu be horrible defeats for Portugal instead of victories. However this being a timeline built on handwaves, the major bases of Portugal have been signed over to the Turk, thus leading to lack of preparedness for when Suleiman organizes another fleet with the money that he has won.

My Idea wasn't the destruction of Persia, or the conquest of all of the muslim world, but instead Ottomans plus an arbitrary half of india. And France plus an arbitrary half of india.
 
The main source of the Ottoman naval power in the Indian Ocean was the Egypt's Red Sea fleet. At the Battle Diu the Portuguese battled the Egyptian fleet of about 100 ships. In 1538 Diu was assaulted by Turkish Galleys which also came from the Red Sea.

Now I think realistically the Ottomans need a major change in shipbuilding for them to project power in the Indian Ocean. Perhaps part of the alliance with France is having French shipbuilders and maybe sailors help them build a proper Indian Ocean fleet?

I wonder how Oman managed their indian ocean empire (where did their lumber come from)?

Now a possible Ottoman India POD might be to have these battles for Diu be horrible defeats for Portugal instead of victories. However this being a timeline built on handwaves, the major bases of Portugal have been signed over to the Turk, thus leading to lack of preparedness for when Suleiman organizes another fleet with the money that he has won.

My Idea wasn't the destruction of Persia, or the conquest of all of the muslim world, but instead Ottomans plus an arbitrary half of india. And France plus an arbitrary half of india.

The Ottomans don't need the French for a fleet, they just need to have the resources to spare to concentrate on the Indian Ocean.

As for bases, Basra could be developed, but Aden or Muscat are perfectly adequate.

However, there is unlikely to be an Ottoman partition of India - the Ottomans would ally with the Mughals and prevent their partition if they had the power to project into the Indian Ocean.
 
The Ottomans don't need the French for a fleet, they just need to have the resources to spare to concentrate on the Indian Ocean.

As for bases, Basra could be developed, but Aden or Muscat are perfectly adequate.

However, there is unlikely to be an Ottoman partition of India - the Ottomans would ally with the Mughals and prevent their partition if they had the power to project into the Indian Ocean.

I think it depends on the opinion of the Mughals to Persia vs. the Ottomans. The Mughals were sunni and during the formative years always felt the threat of Persia. This led to forced good relations between the Mughals and the Safhavids. I think if there is one complex situation in my TL is the relationship between Persia, Ottomans, and Mughals. I don't want this TL to be total domination for the Ottomans, but I like the idea of an Ottoman India, and secure European border.

Now OTL I think there was strain on the relationship between Mughal and Ottomans because the Ottomans were considered the Caliphs of Islam. Akbar after making his pilgrimage to Mecca declared himself Caliph of Islam. Akbar hated the Ottomans and even considered an alliance with the Portuguese against the ottomans, in order to attack Yemen.
 
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UPDATE: I guess I am going to make a proper Alternate History out of this. I am not sure how I am going to write it though? Time line or history text, todays update is the latter. Also this timeline is very unlikely and based on hand waving almost entirely. I still hope its entertaining.

Upon the capture of Diu, Daman, Goa, Salsette, Bombay, and Bacaim. The Ottoman Admiral Hussein Pasha requests the loyalty of the Sultanate of Gujarat to the Caliph of Istanbul. This granted gladly after the show of force and lightning conquests forcing the Portuguese out of India. However this vassalage is viewed as a threat by the neigboring states. Hindu's around the land, upon hearing rumours of slaughter: panic. So Ottomans are for the most part restricted to the Coast much as their predecessors the Portuguese had done.

At the time of Ottoman expansion in India, the Mughals were currently out of power. In fact the Mughal ruler Humayun had a disastrous loss and was forced to escape from India with only a handful of servants. So the Ottomans have to deal with current Pashtun Emperor of Northern India Islam Shah suri.
Islam Shah Suri the son of Sher Shah Suri (who pushed the Mughals out of India) is having a hard time holding his empire together. He welcomes the Ottomans into India, putting on a feast for the Ambassador. While his own army plots against him, he can barely rely even on other Pashtuns.

During these lean years Humayun attempted to establish his capital in Kabul but was ashamedly put under house arrest by his own relatives. Upon escaping he found support and even patronage with Shah Tahmasp of Safhavid Persia (also archenemy of the Ottomans).
Eventually Humayun with the aid of the Persian army started to move back into India. Though Humayun declined to convert to Shi'a the Shah of Persia still favors the sons of Babur as rulers of India.

The Ottomans are still very distant from this struggle so butterflys probably won't alter things.

Next update is about the Portuguese and whats left of their empire.
 
Update and Necromancy:
The Portuguese are now reeling from the blows against their empire: sold out by their Christian in-laws the Habsburgs, and totally humiliated on the seas and in battle against the Ottomans. Yet they still retain bases in east africa, Mauritius and the Island of Ceylon. Their Far Eastern trading posts and claims are still fine as well. These defeats meant a much greater structural problem for Portugal.

Promised Reinforcements in Ceylon never arrived. The Priests and soldiers that kept much of the island Christian are feeling isolated. The King of Jaffna who earlier slaughtered 500 converts to Christianity is now feeling more emboldened. The Arab traders whisper in his ear: “the Portuguese are weak now is the time to rule the entire island.” The King of Kotte who had tolerated the Portuguese was now not feeling so sure of them. However the King of Jaffna is not willing to make a move to wipe all the Portuguese out so instead he moves to continue to kill Christian converts. The Portuguese are now in dire straits. The support they had won from the King of Kotte is unreliable and Jaffna is undoing much of the work they had begun. Not only that but the cinnamon trade has started to die off because of lack of workers. Who are now afraid to work for the Portuguese priests and soldier-merchants.

Now as the bases in india are gone the demand for spice is as strong as ever. So investment into India-bound ships is as high as ever. The Portuguese have lost so much though many are bankrupt and Lisbon is in panic. One high placed Merchant decided to make good on his debts in a very unique way: selling the maps and charts to the Portuguese Asian trade routes.

It would seem that at this point Portugal is out of the picture permanently. But don't count them out yet, they still retain their presence in Africa, Malacca and the spice islands as well as Brasil. The King of Portugal resolves to right this loss and recreate the empire.
 
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I think this TL misses out the most important factor in the POD - the alliance between France and the Ottomans was never supposed to be a working relationship. It was an alliance of convenience. At the time, the Ottomans were enjoying ruining Spanish/Christian trade by commissioning the corsair Admiral Barbarossa to conduct a piracy campaign on a massive scale, it was so successful that it led the Spanish to start a campaign in North Africa which lasted about 20 years trying to restrict his ports and ultimately not being able to hold any ports they took. It was a diversionary attack on such a grand scale that there was no longer any need for a real attack, in fact there was never supposed to be one, but it occupied Spain for decades. Barbarossa, however, needed a safe port as a fall-back and the French, also desperate to exasperate the Spanish, offered him berthing in Marseilles (and Toulon IIRC). It was almost just a petty feud, plus it let French ships be exempt from the piracy. What this agreement wasn't was an offer of alliance. The Kings of France styled themselves Most Catholic King. They had no intention of doing something which would allow the Ottomans to cement themselves at the very border of Germany, even further inland than RL, not least because Germany likely wouldn't be able to survive - at least, without losing chunks - if Hungary, the buffer, had fallen. Similarly, the Ottomans did not truly trust the French as a Christian state, but they knew the French had no reason not to let Barbarossa continue as it didn't involve any land contact, where the French would surely side with Christendom. The French are not going to agree to keep working with a resurgent Ottoman Empire because suddenly they become cooperating traitors with a heathen empire which is gobbling up Europe. If parts of Germany fall then very soon France is going to be under threat, and everyone knew the Ottomans could send out far larger armies than anyone else. Furthermore, once the age of empires has come about, they're really not going to want to share their spoils in the jewel in the crown, India, with a heathen empire when they want India all for themselves. That alliance is bound to fall as soon as both countries share a common strategic goal.
 
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