More ships captured during WWII? A take on the Eternity timeline.

So, here's the basis for this. There's a KC thread over on Spacebattles which features a pretty interesting alt-timeline, with such things as Hood being captured by the Germans, Yamato being captured by the Americans, and Enterprise being sold to the JMSDF. So, I was wondering if any of it was possible and decided to do this.

I've taken the original TL from that thread (link: https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/eternity-a-kantai-collection-story.372481/), and made a few changes to make it IMVHO more realistic. Full credit to the concept goes to Sheo Darren, though. This is sort of like a partial AHC, I have a timeline here and I want to know if it's realistic, and if not I want to know how to make it realistic. Plus just hearing your general insight and thoughts on it.

Here's the TL:

------------------------------------------------------------
1910s

1913 Aug - Delays in the construction of the battlecruiser Kongou in Barrow-in-Furness lead to Japan cancelling the purchase. The IJN renames the three-ship Kongou-class to the Hiei class.

1913 Sep - The Royal Navy purchases Kongou. They rename her Indestructible and complete her construction. The RN begins building her younger sisters Irresistible and Implacable.

1914 Jul - WWI starts.

1918 Nov - WWI ends.

1918 xxx - The IJN realizes the need for a fourth Hiei class battlecruiser and secures funding for the construction of one at the Kobe shipyard. She receives the name Kongou.

------------------------------------------------------------
1920s

1920 Dec - Kongou is completed.

1922 Apr - The Washington Naval Treaty takes effect. The US and Britain get 550,000 tons for battleships, and 200,000 tons for carriers. Japan gets 330,000 tons for battleships and 100,000 tons for carriers. Everyone else gets 190,000 tons for battleships and 70,000 tons for carriers.

The Japanese battlecruiser Amagi and the US battlecruiser Constellation receive the go-ahead for completion. In exchange, the British keep the three Revenge-class battleships that were going to be scrapped to make room for the three Indestructible-class battlecruisers.

1923 Sep - The Great Kanto Earthquake strikes Japan. The battlecruiser Amagi is destroyed. Her sister, the battlecruiser Ashitaka, is selected for completion instead.

------------------------------------------------------------
1930s

1934 xxx - Three Yorktown-class aircraft carriers are ordered by the US, named Yorktown, Enterprise and Wasp.

1939 Sep - WWII starts.

1939 xxx - The US ordered two more Yorktowns, named Hornet and Intrepid.

------------------------------------------------------------
1940s

1941 Feb to Dec - Thirteen Essex-class aircraft carriers are ordered by the US.

1941 May - The Battle of the Denmark Strait. The British battlecruiser Hood is badly damaged, forcing her crew to abandon ship. The battleship Price of Wales is damaged and forced to retreat. A prize crew from the German battleship Bismarck boards and captures the Hood. Guarded by the cruiser Prinz Eugen, Bismarck begins towing Hood to occupied France.

1941 Jun - Bismarck and Hood arrive in St. Nazaire for repairs.

1941 Aug - Bismarck embarks on another commerce raiding mission in the Atlantic, later safely returning Germany. The Hood undergoes a much-needed refit to her boilers. All Allied efforts to destroy her (including a daring raid by British aircraft carriers) fail.

1941 Dec - The Attack on Pearl Harbor. American battleships Arizona, Oklahoma, Utah, and the aircraft carrier Intrepid are all total losses. More ships would be damaged and not return to service for as many as 3 years. Japan and Germany declare war on the US.

1942 Feb - Operation Cerberus, the Channel Dash, is launched. The battlecruiser Hood, battleships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, and cruiser Prinz Eugen escape to Germany while Bismarck and Tirpitz distract the RN.

1942 Mar - Hood begins a lengthy rebuild at Kiel.

1942 Jun - The Battle of Midway. The American aircraft carrier Yorktown and destroyer Hammann are sunk by torpedos from the Japanese submarine I-168. The Japanese aircraft carriers Kaga, Sōryū and Hiryū are critically damaged and are scuttled. Attempts to scuttle the aircraft carrier Akagi fail and she is abandoned, to later be boarded and captured by US forces.

1942 Aug - The US orders an additional ten Essex-class aircraft carriers.

1942 Sep - The American aircraft carrier Wasp is sunk by the Japanese submarine I-19.

1942 Oct - The Battle of Santa Cruz. The aircraft carrier Hornet is badly damaged, but attempts to scuttle her fail and she is captured by the Japanese as US forces withdraw. American intelligence does not realize this and assumes she was sunk until after the war. The Japanese rename Hornet to Suzumebachi.

1942 xxx - The Bismarck and Tirpitz operate as heavy commerce raiders against Allied convoys heading to the Soviet Union.

1942 xxx - The British battleship Indestructible is sunk by a Japanese submarine in the Pacific while on route to reinforce the Dutch and Australians against the Japanese.

1943 Jun - Three additional Essex-class aircraft carriers are ordered by the US.

1943 Jul - Hood is commissioned into the Kriegsmarine. She undergoes sea trials before deploying alongside Bismarck and Prinz Eugen as commerce raiders.

1943 Aug - The German raiders encounter a powerful Allied task force designed specifically to destroy Hood and Bismarck. Bismarck takes damage to her boilers and is unable to retreat. Lutjens and Lindemann decide to sacrifice Bismarck by covering the retreat of Hood and Prinz Eugen.

Bismarck is badly damaged by the British warships Anson, Irresistible, and Implacable. Lutjens is badly injured, command falls to Lindemann who surrenders Bismarck to the Allied forces. She is temporarily kept at Scapa Flow, and after embarking a Canadian caretaker crew who calls her HMCS Bismarck, she sails to the United States for repair and refitting.

1943 Dec - The German battleship Scharnhorst is intercepted and sunk by a Royal Navy task force. Despite the threat of U-boat attack, the British warships remain in the area to rescue the survivors.

1944 xxx - Starting this year, Hood and Prinz Eugen provide fire support to German forces retreating from the Baltic states.

1944 May - Bismarck is recommissioned as HMS Bismarck. Her crew is drawn from representatives of the Commonwealth and exiles from occupied Europe, gaining her the nickname UNS (United Nations Ship) Bismarck.

1944 Jun - D-Day. Allied forces perform combat landings at Normandy and begin pushing the Germans back through western Europe. Bismarck supports the Sword beach landing.

1944 Oct - The Battle of Leyte Gulf. The Japanese lose 2 fleet carriers, including Suzumebachi (the former Hornet) who is sunk by planes from the American aircraft carrier Enterprise after being misidentified as Tahio class. The forces of Taffy 3 make a successful last stand against the approaching Japanese battle group after the bulk of the US capital ships are diverted by Halsey, pushing the Japanese to retreat.

1945 Mar - American carrier aircraft from Enterprise, Yorktown and Intrepid raid Kure. Despite stiff resistance by local defenses, the American naval aviators damage sixteen Japanese ships, including the battleship Yamato.

1945 Apr - Operation Iceberg, the Allied invasion of Okinawa, is launched. The IJN begins planning out Operation Ten-gō. A Surface Special Task Force consisting of the battleship Yamato, the light cruiser Yahagi, and eight destroyers is formed. Their mission is to fight past the US Seventh Fleet, destroy as many American troop ships as they can, beach themselves, and serve as shore batteries until they are destroyed, in which case the survivors will join Japanese troops in Okinawa and continue fighting.

However, Yamato is unable to leave Kure due to engine troubles caused by the earlier air attack. Instead, the battleship Nagato is hurriedly repaired and sent from Yokosuka to Tokuyama for a one-way journey to glory. The local base commanders authorize transfer of all remaining fuel to the task force ships in the noble expectation that they will return.

April 6th - Operation Ten-gō begins.

April 7th - The US Navy annihilates the Surface Special Task Force. American air power sinks Yahagi and five out of the seven destroyers. Hatsushimo and Yukikaze escape with survivors. The battleship Nagato is engaged by the American fast battleships Massachusetts, Indiana, South Dakota, New Jersey, Wisconsin, and Missouri. She is badly damaged but in turn manages to damage South Dakota.

Nagato’s surviving crew surrenders. They attempt to scuttle the ship, but quick-thinking and fast-acting American boarding teams save her.

April 10th - Nagato is used as a decoy by the US forces to draw out kamikaze attacks.

April 16th - A large IJN bomber force attacks Nagato. The American destroyers William D Porter and Laffey engage the enemy aircraft to defend Nagato despite orders not to. Miraculously they succeeded in limiting the damage the IJN forces inflict upon both themselves and Nagato to survivable levels.

1945 May - Victory in Europe. Hood and Prinz Eugen surrender to the RN.

1945 Jul - On her way to the Philippines, the American heavy cruiser Indianapolis is sunk by the Japanese submarine I-58. Nine hundred survivors are picked up by the battleship South Dakota, who was also heading towards the Philippines.

1945 Aug - Atomic weapons are deployed by the United States against the Empire of Japan. The Soviet Union begins the invasion of Manchuria. Japan unconditionally surrenders to the US. The Yamato is captured by US forces in Kure. General McArthur is impressed by the sight of the massive battleship, and has Yamato brought up to Tokyo Bay for the surrender ceremony.

1945 Sep - The Japanese Instrument of Surrender is signed aboard the deck of the American battleship Missouri in Tokyo Bay. Among the Allied warships present is the aircraft carrier Enterprise, who avoided a kamikaze attack during the Battle of Okinawa.

1946 Jan - Enterprise is deactivated and mothballed at the Brooklyn Navy Yard in New York City, New York. She is decommissioned a month later.

1946 July - Operation Crossroads is launched.

------------------------------------------------------------
1950s

1950 Jun - The Korean War starts. The reactivated battleship Yamato would bombard North Korean and Chinese forces frequently during the conflict.

1953 Jul - The Korean War ends.

1954 Jul - The Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force is founded.

1955 Nov - The Vietnam War starts.

1957 xxx - Fleet Admiral Halsey and General MacArthur combine their political pull to persuade the Japanese to buy the deactivated Enterprise as the centerpiece of the JMSDF. Enterprise begins refitting at the Brooklyn Navy Yard in New York.

1958 Aug - Enterprise completes her refit. She is renamed Yonaga (Long Night) and enters service with the JMSDF. Halsey moves to Japan in order to be near her. He serves as an esteemed civilian adviser to the JMSDF.

1958 Dec - Yamato is renamed Montana and is refitted with American equipment.

------------------------------------------------------------
1960s

1960 xxx - Montana starts serving in the Vietnam War. She is the lone operational battleship in the world.

1961 xxx - The Enterprise-class supercarrier Enterprise is commissioned in the US. She is the first nuclear powered aircraft carrier in the world.

1967 xxx - New Jersey is reactivated and joins Montana on the North Vietnamese gun line.

1968 xxx - The Japanese Diet amends Article Nine of its Constitution. Japan can now legally exercise the right of "collective self defense" and implement military action if one of its allies comes under attack. The influential and respected Halsey plays an instrumental role in ensuring the passage of this amendment.

1969 xxx - Halsey dies at the age of 86. He is buried with full military honors at Yokosuka, Japan. He is considered to be ‘The Father of the JMSDF’.

1970 xxx - The movie Tora! Tora! Tora! is released. Many scenes were shot aboard Yonaga and Montana.

1971 xxx - The Republic of China turns over the destroyer Tan-Yang to Japan. She reinstates her old name of Yukikaze and is turned into a museum ship at Odaiba.

1973 xxx - The Vietnam war ends.

1974 xxx - Montana is retired. She becomes a museum ship at Los Angeles, California.
 
1941 May - The Battle of the Denmark Strait. The British battlecruiser Hood is badly damaged, forcing her crew to abandon ship. The battleship Price of Wales is damaged and forced to retreat. A prize crew from the German battleship Bismarck boards and captures the Hood. Guarded by the cruiser Prinz Eugen, Bismarck begins towing Hood to occupied France.
1) Why did her crew not scuttle her when abandoning ship?

2) If Hood is in good enough condition to be re-crewed and towed, why was she abandoned to begin with?

3) How are they towing Hood back? That's a very long journey through an area where the British enjoy total naval supremacy. Bismarck wasn't able to survive the journey iOTL, certainly wouldn't if it was also towing a similar sized ship.

Plenty of ships, including capital ships, were captured in WWII, just in port, when land forces overran their harbours before they could (or because they were unable to) set to sea.
 
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1) Why did her crew not scuttle her when abandoning ship?

2) If Hood is in good enough condition to be re-crewed and towed, why was she abandoned to begin with?

3) How are they towing Hood back? That's a very long journey through an area where the British enjoy total naval supremacy. Bismarck wasn't able to survive the journey iOTL, certainly wouldn't if it was also towing a similar sized ship.

Plenty of ships, including capital ships, were captured in WWII, just in port, when land forces overran their harbours before they could (or because they were unable to) set to sea.

I don’t know, actually. Perhaps they couldn’t tow her in time before the German forces arrived, and their attempts to scuttle her failed for some reason? The bigger problem though is Nagato. The crew would probably not surrender, but I wanted her to survive for Crossroads later. I’m not an expert, I would appreciate it if anyone could think of a way this could work (or prove that it couldn’t).

Also, yes, a lot of ships were captured in port, like Yamato ITTL.
 
Having this many ships be repeatedly captured is complete ASB and makes zero sense. I don't like to be that guy but there is basically nothing about what you've described that sounds realistic. There is so much wrong with using captured ships or even capturing them in the first place. This isn't the age of sail. The crew of basically any major warship would scuttle their ship before they left, especially in regards to a ship to beloved and famous as HMS Hood. If Hood is badly damaged to a point where she is being abandoned in the first place, it is basically impossible to save her in order to tow her. When they get her back to port, the Germans would have a horrible time trying to repair her. They don't have her building plans, they don't have the individual knowledge to run her properly, they would have to either completely haul out all her weapons and replace them with German ones or start producing spare barrels and ammo, they don't have any spare parts, etc. Operating an enemy capital ship in wartime is basically impossible, let alone properly fixing such a badly damaged one. You can extend this to every other captured ship in the timeline as well.

Based on a KC story is basically a mark of it going to be completely unrealistic, I don't see how you could salvage anything out of this while making it realistic.
 
Part of the reason that Illustrious took so long to be repaired in an American Yard in WW2 was because the American Yard had to basically create everything to repair her from scratch. Jigs, moulds, wrenches, drills, fabrication equipment, everything was to a different standard. And that was between two nations both using Standard Units and sharing the plans. A German or French Yard using Metric Units and without the plans is going to take years to repair and refit a significantly damaged major warship. And it may take more material than building a new one of their own. Most likely if Hood is abandoned and not sinking yet Prinz Eugen sinks her with torpedoes as they go. Or they leave her, to try and shake the cruisers that are shadowing them and she is towed back to a British Yard to emerge in 43/44 with a major refit.
 
So, here's the basis for this. There's a KC thread over on Spacebattles which features a pretty interesting alt-timeline, with such things as Hood being captured by the Germans, Yamato being captured by the Americans, and Enterprise being sold to the JMSDF. So, I was wondering if any of it was possible and decided to do this.

I've taken the original TL from that thread (link: https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/eternity-a-kantai-collection-story.372481/), and made a few changes to make it IMVHO more realistic. Full credit to the concept goes to Sheo Darren, though. This is sort of like a partial AHC, I have a timeline here and I want to know if it's realistic, and if not I want to know how to make it realistic. Plus just hearing your general insight and thoughts on it.

Here's the TL:

------------------------------------------------------------
1910s

1913 Aug - Delays in the construction of the battlecruiser Kongou in Barrow-in-Furness lead to Japan cancelling the purchase. The IJN renames the three-ship Kongou-class to the Hiei class.

1913 Sep - The Royal Navy purchases Kongou. They rename her Indestructible and complete her construction. The RN begins building her younger sisters Irresistible and Implacable.

1914 Jul - WWI starts.

1918 Nov - WWI ends.

1918 xxx - The IJN realizes the need for a fourth Hiei class battlecruiser and secures funding for the construction of one at the Kobe shipyard. She receives the name Kongou.

------------------------------------------------------------
1920s

1920 Dec - Kongou is completed.

1922 Apr - The Washington Naval Treaty takes effect. The US and Britain get 550,000 tons for battleships, and 200,000 tons for carriers. Japan gets 330,000 tons for battleships and 100,000 tons for carriers. Everyone else gets 190,000 tons for battleships and 70,000 tons for carriers.

The Japanese battlecruiser Amagi and the US battlecruiser Constellation receive the go-ahead for completion. In exchange, the British keep the three Revenge-class battleships that were going to be scrapped to make room for the three Indestructible-class battlecruisers.

1923 Sep - The Great Kanto Earthquake strikes Japan. The battlecruiser Amagi is destroyed. Her sister, the battlecruiser Ashitaka, is selected for completion instead.

------------------------------------------------------------
1930s

1934 xxx - Three Yorktown-class aircraft carriers are ordered by the US, named Yorktown, Enterprise and Wasp.

1939 Sep - WWII starts.

1939 xxx - The US ordered two more Yorktowns, named Hornet and Intrepid.

------------------------------------------------------------
1940s

1941 Feb to Dec - Thirteen Essex-class aircraft carriers are ordered by the US.

1941 May - The Battle of the Denmark Strait. The British battlecruiser Hood is badly damaged, forcing her crew to abandon ship. The battleship Price of Wales is damaged and forced to retreat. A prize crew from the German battleship Bismarck boards and captures the Hood. Guarded by the cruiser Prinz Eugen, Bismarck begins towing Hood to occupied France.

1941 Jun - Bismarck and Hood arrive in St. Nazaire for repairs.

1941 Aug - Bismarck embarks on another commerce raiding mission in the Atlantic, later safely returning Germany. The Hood undergoes a much-needed refit to her boilers. All Allied efforts to destroy her (including a daring raid by British aircraft carriers) fail.

1941 Dec - The Attack on Pearl Harbor. American battleships Arizona, Oklahoma, Utah, and the aircraft carrier Intrepid are all total losses. More ships would be damaged and not return to service for as many as 3 years. Japan and Germany declare war on the US.

1942 Feb - Operation Cerberus, the Channel Dash, is launched. The battlecruiser Hood, battleships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, and cruiser Prinz Eugen escape to Germany while Bismarck and Tirpitz distract the RN.

1942 Mar - Hood begins a lengthy rebuild at Kiel.

1942 Jun - The Battle of Midway. The American aircraft carrier Yorktown and destroyer Hammann are sunk by torpedos from the Japanese submarine I-168. The Japanese aircraft carriers Kaga, Sōryū and Hiryū are critically damaged and are scuttled. Attempts to scuttle the aircraft carrier Akagi fail and she is abandoned, to later be boarded and captured by US forces.

1942 Aug - The US orders an additional ten Essex-class aircraft carriers.

1942 Sep - The American aircraft carrier Wasp is sunk by the Japanese submarine I-19.

1942 Oct - The Battle of Santa Cruz. The aircraft carrier Hornet is badly damaged, but attempts to scuttle her fail and she is captured by the Japanese as US forces withdraw. American intelligence does not realize this and assumes she was sunk until after the war. The Japanese rename Hornet to Suzumebachi.

1942 xxx - The Bismarck and Tirpitz operate as heavy commerce raiders against Allied convoys heading to the Soviet Union.

1942 xxx - The British battleship Indestructible is sunk by a Japanese submarine in the Pacific while on route to reinforce the Dutch and Australians against the Japanese.

1943 Jun - Three additional Essex-class aircraft carriers are ordered by the US.

1943 Jul - Hood is commissioned into the Kriegsmarine. She undergoes sea trials before deploying alongside Bismarck and Prinz Eugen as commerce raiders.

1943 Aug - The German raiders encounter a powerful Allied task force designed specifically to destroy Hood and Bismarck. Bismarck takes damage to her boilers and is unable to retreat. Lutjens and Lindemann decide to sacrifice Bismarck by covering the retreat of Hood and Prinz Eugen.

Bismarck is badly damaged by the British warships Anson, Irresistible, and Implacable. Lutjens is badly injured, command falls to Lindemann who surrenders Bismarck to the Allied forces. She is temporarily kept at Scapa Flow, and after embarking a Canadian caretaker crew who calls her HMCS Bismarck, she sails to the United States for repair and refitting.

1943 Dec - The German battleship Scharnhorst is intercepted and sunk by a Royal Navy task force. Despite the threat of U-boat attack, the British warships remain in the area to rescue the survivors.

1944 xxx - Starting this year, Hood and Prinz Eugen provide fire support to German forces retreating from the Baltic states.

1944 May - Bismarck is recommissioned as HMS Bismarck. Her crew is drawn from representatives of the Commonwealth and exiles from occupied Europe, gaining her the nickname UNS (United Nations Ship) Bismarck.

1944 Jun - D-Day. Allied forces perform combat landings at Normandy and begin pushing the Germans back through western Europe. Bismarck supports the Sword beach landing.

1944 Oct - The Battle of Leyte Gulf. The Japanese lose 2 fleet carriers, including Suzumebachi (the former Hornet) who is sunk by planes from the American aircraft carrier Enterprise after being misidentified as Tahio class. The forces of Taffy 3 make a successful last stand against the approaching Japanese battle group after the bulk of the US capital ships are diverted by Halsey, pushing the Japanese to retreat.

1945 Mar - American carrier aircraft from Enterprise, Yorktown and Intrepid raid Kure. Despite stiff resistance by local defenses, the American naval aviators damage sixteen Japanese ships, including the battleship Yamato.

1945 Apr - Operation Iceberg, the Allied invasion of Okinawa, is launched. The IJN begins planning out Operation Ten-gō. A Surface Special Task Force consisting of the battleship Yamato, the light cruiser Yahagi, and eight destroyers is formed. Their mission is to fight past the US Seventh Fleet, destroy as many American troop ships as they can, beach themselves, and serve as shore batteries until they are destroyed, in which case the survivors will join Japanese troops in Okinawa and continue fighting.

However, Yamato is unable to leave Kure due to engine troubles caused by the earlier air attack. Instead, the battleship Nagato is hurriedly repaired and sent from Yokosuka to Tokuyama for a one-way journey to glory. The local base commanders authorize transfer of all remaining fuel to the task force ships in the noble expectation that they will return.

April 6th - Operation Ten-gō begins.

April 7th - The US Navy annihilates the Surface Special Task Force. American air power sinks Yahagi and five out of the seven destroyers. Hatsushimo and Yukikaze escape with survivors. The battleship Nagato is engaged by the American fast battleships Massachusetts, Indiana, South Dakota, New Jersey, Wisconsin, and Missouri. She is badly damaged but in turn manages to damage South Dakota.

Nagato’s surviving crew surrenders. They attempt to scuttle the ship, but quick-thinking and fast-acting American boarding teams save her.

April 10th - Nagato is used as a decoy by the US forces to draw out kamikaze attacks.

April 16th - A large IJN bomber force attacks Nagato. The American destroyers William D Porter and Laffey engage the enemy aircraft to defend Nagato despite orders not to. Miraculously they succeeded in limiting the damage the IJN forces inflict upon both themselves and Nagato to survivable levels.

1945 May - Victory in Europe. Hood and Prinz Eugen surrender to the RN.

1945 Jul - On her way to the Philippines, the American heavy cruiser Indianapolis is sunk by the Japanese submarine I-58. Nine hundred survivors are picked up by the battleship South Dakota, who was also heading towards the Philippines.

1945 Aug - Atomic weapons are deployed by the United States against the Empire of Japan. The Soviet Union begins the invasion of Manchuria. Japan unconditionally surrenders to the US. The Yamato is captured by US forces in Kure. General McArthur is impressed by the sight of the massive battleship, and has Yamato brought up to Tokyo Bay for the surrender ceremony.

1945 Sep - The Japanese Instrument of Surrender is signed aboard the deck of the American battleship Missouri in Tokyo Bay. Among the Allied warships present is the aircraft carrier Enterprise, who avoided a kamikaze attack during the Battle of Okinawa.

1946 Jan - Enterprise is deactivated and mothballed at the Brooklyn Navy Yard in New York City, New York. She is decommissioned a month later.

1946 July - Operation Crossroads is launched.

------------------------------------------------------------
1950s

1950 Jun - The Korean War starts. The reactivated battleship Yamato would bombard North Korean and Chinese forces frequently during the conflict.

1953 Jul - The Korean War ends.

1954 Jul - The Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force is founded.

1955 Nov - The Vietnam War starts.

1957 xxx - Fleet Admiral Halsey and General MacArthur combine their political pull to persuade the Japanese to buy the deactivated Enterprise as the centerpiece of the JMSDF. Enterprise begins refitting at the Brooklyn Navy Yard in New York.

1958 Aug - Enterprise completes her refit. She is renamed Yonaga (Long Night) and enters service with the JMSDF. Halsey moves to Japan in order to be near her. He serves as an esteemed civilian adviser to the JMSDF.

1958 Dec - Yamato is renamed Montana and is refitted with American equipment.

------------------------------------------------------------
1960s

1960 xxx - Montana starts serving in the Vietnam War. She is the lone operational battleship in the world.

1961 xxx - The Enterprise-class supercarrier Enterprise is commissioned in the US. She is the first nuclear powered aircraft carrier in the world.

1967 xxx - New Jersey is reactivated and joins Montana on the North Vietnamese gun line.

1968 xxx - The Japanese Diet amends Article Nine of its Constitution. Japan can now legally exercise the right of "collective self defense" and implement military action if one of its allies comes under attack. The influential and respected Halsey plays an instrumental role in ensuring the passage of this amendment.

1969 xxx - Halsey dies at the age of 86. He is buried with full military honors at Yokosuka, Japan. He is considered to be ‘The Father of the JMSDF’.

1970 xxx - The movie Tora! Tora! Tora! is released. Many scenes were shot aboard Yonaga and Montana.

1971 xxx - The Republic of China turns over the destroyer Tan-Yang to Japan. She reinstates her old name of Yukikaze and is turned into a museum ship at Odaiba.

1973 xxx - The Vietnam war ends.

1974 xxx - Montana is retired. She becomes a museum ship at Los Angeles, California.

The only way a warship could realistically be 'captured' is as part of a post war agreement - such as the Russian BBs when they threw in the towel against the Germans and the ship they handed over was actually scuttled by its crew!

Same with the German High Seas fleet - it ended up in Scapa Flow but when it became clear that the ships would be handed over to the Entente nations the crews also scuttled most of them

The only other way a warship could be captured is if it is incomplete in a drydock or in the middle of a major refit and even then the owning power generally manages to scuttle them first - for example the French BB Clemenceau which was basically an unfinished hull and the French flooded the drydock before the Germans could seize her - although re-floated work never realistically started again.

So basically the owning side handing the keys over as part of a political agreement or capturing the vessel in port before it can get away or be nobbled

The Hood thing? Seriously? Not happening - even if the crew did abandon it (and if they were forced to abandon it how would an unfamiliar 'prize crew' get it working etc to allow it to be towed back to France) - the Atlantic is an Allied lake - the Germans can only raid into it and beat feet after every engagement lest the RN concentrate against them.

The only thing close to this that happened as far as I know was the USS Hornet which was abandoned and efforts to sink it with Torpedo's and gunfire from her escorts had to be abandoned when a IJN SAG turned up and the Japanese decided to sink it instead - but its pretty much the only example I know of a major ship that could have been captured in battle during the war (unlikely to have been towed back to Japan but as I said its the most likely example)
 
Part of the reason that Illustrious took so long to be repaired in an American Yard in WW2 was because the American Yard had to basically create everything to repair her from scratch. Jigs, moulds, wrenches, drills, fabrication equipment, everything was to a different standard. And that was between two nations both using Standard Units and sharing the plans. A German or French Yard using Metric Units and without the plans is going to take years to repair and refit a significantly damaged major warship. And it may take more material than building a new one of their own. Most likely if Hood is abandoned and not sinking yet Prinz Eugen sinks her with torpedoes as they go. Or they leave her, to try and shake the cruisers that are shadowing them and she is towed back to a British Yard to emerge in 43/44 with a major refit.

And they conducted an intensive investigation into her damage - to the point of recovering bomb fragments to work out what type of weapon did what.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
1) Why did her crew not scuttle her when abandoning ship?

2) If Hood is in good enough condition to be re-crewed and towed, why was she abandoned to begin with?

3) How are they towing Hood back? That's a very long journey through an area where the British enjoy total naval supremacy. Bismarck wasn't able to survive the journey iOTL, certainly wouldn't if it was also towing a similar sized ship.

Plenty of ships, including capital ships, were captured in WWII, just in port, when land forces overran their harbours before they could (or because they were unable to) set to sea.
Not sure how the Prinz Eugen manages to get away with the Hood. At best, in glassy seas, she might manage four-five knots, in rougher seas, which are more likely, three knots and that assumes the tow lines don't part, and tow lines ALWAYS part. So in ideal conditions, if Bismarck manages to delay the British by 24 hours, which would be one hell of good job as Royal Navy forces are rolling in from three directions, the Hood might be 100 miles from where the big fight started. Fours hours later, maybe less depending on sea state, the Prinz is going to be facing half a dozen cruisers, probably 8-10 destroyers and have a couple battleships heading towards them as full speed. She sure as hell can't fight while towing a 40,000 ton weight even if she wants to. Most likely the Hood doesn't get over the horizon before a could British destroyers show up and sink her, along with Prinz if her CO is dumb enough try to fight while dragging the world's biggest sea anchor.

Dog won't hunt.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
I don’t know, actually. Perhaps they couldn’t tow her in time before the German forces arrived, and their attempts to scuttle her failed for some reason? The bigger problem though is Nagato. The crew would probably not surrender, but I wanted her to survive for Crossroads later. I’m not an expert, I would appreciate it if anyone could think of a way this could work (or prove that it couldn’t).

Also, yes, a lot of ships were captured in port, like Yamato ITTL.
There AREN'T any other German forces to arrive. There was a reason that Bismarck went out with one a single cruiser, that was all the KM had available.
 
The only thing close to this that happened as far as I know was the USS Hornet which was abandoned and efforts to sink it with Torpedo's and gunfire from her escorts had to be abandoned when a IJN SAG turned up and the Japanese decided to sink it instead - but its pretty much the only example I know of a major ship that could have been captured in battle during the war (unlikely to have been towed back to Japan but as I said its the most likely example)
The one other case where it might be vaguely plausible for a major warship to be captured on the high seas during WW2, that of the Italian heavy cruiser Pola during Cape Matapan... Disabled by a torpedo hit; her sister ships shattered by 15 inch shellfire at point-blank range and her escorts driven off, thus left alone and defenseless to the point that a British Destroyer was able to come right along side to take off survivors (and if wikipeida is to be believed put a boarding party aboard to make off with some of Pola's light AA guns...). If not for the threat of heavy air attack come day break it's quite conceivable it'd have ended with the White Ensign flying over Italian colours...
 
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The one other case where it might be vaguely plausible for a major warship to be captured on the high seas during WW2, that of the Italian heavy cruiser Pola during Cape Matapan... Disabled by a torpedo hit; her sister ships shattered by 15 inch shellfire at point-blank range and her escorts driven off, thus left alone and defenseless to the point that a British Destroyer was able to come right along side to take off survivors (and if wikipeida is to be believed put a boarding party aboard to make off with some of Pola's light AA guns...). If not for the threat of heavy air attack come day break it's quite conceivable it'd have ended with the White Ensign flying over Italian colours...

If it was a Tribal I would believe it - those guys were fucking nut cases.
 
If it was a Tribal I would believe it - those guys were fucking nut cases.

"Roll along wavy navy roll along..............................." HMCS Haida.

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AFAIK this capture thing happened to some submarines on both sides during the war, but I think that's it in terms of captured ships.
I don't think anything bigger than a destroyer was captured by either sides, not including the Italian and Vichy fleets that were seized by the Germans while in port.
 
I'mma be blunt, @BillKerman123 : the Eternity timeline is geared towards interesting present-day botegirl shenanigans rather than any sort of historical plausibility. People rolled with it because, well, botegirls. Trying to make a plausible timeline out of the premise is a fool's errand.
 
Having this many ships be repeatedly captured is complete ASB and makes zero sense. I don't like to be that guy but there is basically nothing about what you've described that sounds realistic.
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Based on a KC story is basically a mark of it going to be completely unrealistic, I don't see how you could salvage anything out of this while making it realistic.
The only way a warship could realistically be 'captured' is as part of a post war agreement - such as the Russian BBs when they threw in the towel against the Germans and the ship they handed over was actually scuttled by its crew!
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Dog won't hunt.
There AREN'T any other German forces to arrive. There was a reason that Bismarck went out with one a single cruiser, that was all the KM had available.
The one other case where it might be vaguely plausible for a major warship to be captured on the high seas during WW2, that of the Italian heavy cruiser Pola during Cape Matapan...
[Snip]
I'mma be blunt, @BillKerman123 : the Eternity timeline is geared towards interesting present-day botegirl shenanigans rather than any sort of historical plausibility. People rolled with it because, well, botegirls. Trying to make a plausible timeline out of the premise is a fool's errand.

Okay, apparently I massively misjudged the historical accuracy of the TL. Sorry guys for wasting your time.
 
Okay, apparently I massively misjudged the historical accuracy of the TL. Sorry guys for wasting your time.
Not a waste. It’s something I wondered a lot about early on. There is a lot of cool factor to capturing and using an enemy’s ships. It is unfortunately just not very practical in WW2.
 
Not a waste. It’s something I wondered a lot about early on. There is a lot of cool factor to capturing and using an enemy’s ships. It is unfortunately just not very practical in WW2.

If one of the combatants in WW2 had some means of disabling the entire crew of a warship including all the crew members below decks. Some kind of fast acting air born nerve gas or poison that would render the crew members unconscious or dead. And it would have to be delivered onto a fast moving ship while at sea.

It's nonsense. Nothing existed back in WW2 that could practicably do that. And I don't think there is anything even now that could. At least not if the crew had any warnings.

Could such a method have been deployed against WW2 merchant ships? A sub suddenly surfaces close by and upwind of the freighter and starts spewing some kind of knock out gas. After the crew and possible passengers are incapacitated the sub sends the prize crew over to capture the freighter. Sounds pretty dubious to me. And it also raises the questions of war crimes and introducing the use of chemical weapons in WW2. Would've made a good plot for some lurid 1950s B-movie. Or maybe the Alt-history ASB forum.
 
If one of the combatants in WW2 had some means of disabling the entire crew of a warship including all the crew members below decks. Some kind of fast acting air born nerve gas or poison that would render the crew members unconscious or dead. And it would have to be delivered onto a fast moving ship while at sea.

It's nonsense. Nothing existed back in WW2 that could practicably do that. And I don't think there is anything even now that could. At least not if the crew had any warnings.

Could such a method have been deployed against WW2 merchant ships? A sub suddenly surfaces close by and upwind of the freighter and starts spewing some kind of knock out gas. After the crew and possible passengers are incapacitated the sub sends the prize crew over to capture the freighter. Sounds pretty dubious to me. And it also raises the questions of war crimes and introducing the use of chemical weapons in WW2. Would've made a good plot for some lurid 1950s B-movie. Or maybe the Alt-history ASB forum.

My answer would be a gaggle of Jack Tars armed with 1901 pattern Cutlass - that would clear the lower decks ;)

The RN only stopped training with the weapon in 1936 and while the use of one in the Altmark incident has been pretty much debunked by the crew of the Cossack as well as modern Historical Fencers - it would have been still possible for many longer serving Sailors to have been skilled with the weapon.
 
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