More Rusyn speekers

Rusyn is a East Slavic language along Belurussian, Russian and Ukrainian. It is spoken in the region of the former Austro-Hungarian empire. Historically there have also been immigrant communities in USA most of whom have by now become assimilated.

How can you get more Rusyn speakers by present day(2018)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyn_language
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyns
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Robert_Magocsi
https://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsburgh/how-the-rusyns-could-save-civilization/Content?oid=1340816
 
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There might be two ways:

1. Austro-Hungary survives and the government decide support Rusyn language decreasing power of Hungarians.
2. After WW2 on some reason Stalin founds Rutynian Soviet Republic and try support the language.
 
Rusyn is a East Slavic language along Belurussian, Russian and Ukrainian. It is spoken in the region of the former Austro-Hungarian empire. Historically there have also been immigrant communities in USA most of whom have by now become assimilated.

How can you get more Rusyn speakers by present day(2018)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyn_language
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyns
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Robert_Magocsi
https://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsburgh/how-the-rusyns-could-save-civilization/Content?oid=1340816
Well our ancestors intermarried into other ethnicities and assimilated.
It didn’t help post WWI Rusyns ended in various states. Also national awaking was on smsllet scsle then smong Czechs or Slovaks.

Single biggest help could be if Ruthenia post WWII stayed part of Czechoslovakia I guess. Problem was many Ruthenians felt they are members of Ukrainisn nation while others thought they are separate.

There still would be miggration though. Post WWII many Ruthenians who served in Czechoslovak army in USSR (one point app 1/3 of soldiers) stayed in Czechoslovakia and assimilated with Czechs or Slovaks. Similarly Ruthenisns who moved from villages to cities in Slovakia assimilated with Slovaks.
 
There might be two ways:

1. Austro-Hungary survives and the government decide support Rusyn language decreasing power of Hungarians.
2. After WW2 on some reason Stalin founds Rutynian Soviet Republic and try support the language.
#3 Ruthenia post WWII part of Czechoslovakia. In 1968 forms 3rd republic of federation.
 
Well our ancestors intermarried into other ethnicities and assimilated.
It didn’t help post WWI Rusyns ended in various states. Also national awaking was on smsllet scsle then smong Czechs or Slovaks.

Single biggest help could be if Ruthenia post WWII stayed part of Czechoslovakia I guess. Problem was many Ruthenians felt they are members of Ukrainisn nation while others thought they are separate.

There still would be miggration though. Post WWII many Ruthenians who served in Czechoslovak army in USSR (one point app 1/3 of soldiers) stayed in Czechoslovakia and assimilated with Czechs or Slovaks. Similarly Ruthenisns who moved from villages to cities in Slovakia assimilated with Slovaks.
Maybe there could be Rusyn diaspora population that keep Rusyn as their first language similar to Yiddish among Jews, German among Germans or Romani among the Roma?
 
#3 Ruthenia post WWII part of Czechoslovakia. In 1968 forms 3rd republic of federation.
If a Rusyn state had been the third party in Czecho-Slovakia then the Rusyn identity would have been offically recognised which may make it easier to keep a distinct lanaguage.
 
Maybe there could be Rusyn diaspora population that keep Rusyn as their first language similar to Yiddish among Jews, German among Germans or Romani among the Roma?
You need concentrate this diaspora. There is Rusyn diaspora in US but is spread up and interaracting. Slovak Rusyns in US are for example active in Slovak community but also some in Rusyn.

Another problem is due to ukrainizatiin of Ruthenia- from some 1.2 mil inhabitants only small number feels to be Rusyns and even their were under Ukrainian secret service observation.

Polish Lemko were either repatriated to Ukraine after WWII or spread up on territories gained after WWII.

Slovak Rusyns are divided too due to former pressure from USSR. Not just their schools were Ukrainian but also their church I believe become part of Russian orthodox church. Originally they were mostly Greek Catholic but after 1948, in 1950 all members become parts of Russian orthodox church. Pavol Gojdic, Ruthenian bishop was sentenced by communist to life in prison along with Slovak catholic bishops.
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
Single biggest help could be if Ruthenia post WWII stayed part of Czechoslovakia I guess. Problem was many Ruthenians felt they are members of Ukrainisn nation while others thought they are separate.

There still would be miggration though. Post WWII many Ruthenians who served in Czechoslovak army in USSR (one point app 1/3 of soldiers) stayed in Czechoslovakia and assimilated with Czechs or Slovaks. Similarly Ruthenisns who moved from villages to cities in Slovakia assimilated with Slovaks.

Using this logic, wouldn’t there be even more Rusyn speakers if there was no Hitler stopped after Munich and Carpatho-Ruthenia stayed with Hungary? It’s much harder for a Rusyn to assimilate into Hungarian culture than into Czech or Slovak culture.
 
Using this logic, wouldn’t there be even more Rusyn speakers if there was no Hitler stopped after Munich and Carpatho-Ruthenia stayed with Hungary? It’s much harder for a Rusyn to assimilate into Hungarian culture than into Czech or Slovak culture.
Harder but not impossible. Especially as there few bigger towns in Ruthenia had huge Hungarian/ Jewish Hungarian population. Without enough Rusyn High Schools and at least one University there is either magyarization of people who want to achieve higher education or mass emigration. After all huge number of Rusyns from Ruthenia between years 1939 to 1941 escaped to USSR. Didn’t help them much. First 15 years in gulag later as Czechoslovak citizen were able to join Czechoslovak army.

It’s not like Hungarian kingdom cared to much about its Slavic and Romanian minorities.

Czechoslovakia after 1918 hugely improved Slovak and Rusyn school system. High schools in both languages were opened. For sure there was not Rusyn University but I believe department was opened.

Best option for them would be if their independence from March 1939 was not destroyed by Hungarian occupation.
 
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I believe problem was also that Rusyn politicians were after 1918 devided in Ukrainian and Russian oriented while Rusyn language wasn’t properly codified.

Today Ukraine accepts Rusyn language only as dialect of Ukrainian.
Only Rusyn theater is operating in Slovakia and Slovka Presov University has department of Rusyn language.


Interestingly Ukraine nationalists are operating with theory Slovaks and others are trying to create Rusyn nation in order to divide Ukrainians.

Rusyn language was codified only in 1995 in Slovakia and there was something done in Yugoslavia in 1974 with Pannonian Rusyns.

They just shouldn’t tell that to the eyes of my Rusyn friends. :D
 
Stalin lets Czechoslovakia keep Carpatho-Rus. Eventually the federalization of Czecholslovakia leads to it consisting of three republics--Czech, Slovak, and Carpatho-Rus--all of which become independent with the Velvet Divorce.

Some evidence that Stalin had not decided on making Carpatho-Rus part of the USSR until rather late: "No sooner did the Slovak revolt succumb to overwhelming German power than the Russians shocked Benes by demanding, albeit by proxy, cession of a portion of Czechoslovak territory. They were the force behind the mass rallies in the Carpathian Ukraine which from the end of October onwards began to clamor for its unification with the Soviet Ukraine. Radio Kiev seconded the demand, and the Red Army barred London's plenipotentiary from assuming his duties as stipulated by the Czechoslovak-Soviet administrative agreement of the previous May.

"The Soviet behavior was all the more disturbing since the Russians had until then recognized the province as an integral part of Czechoslovakia and had also made their Czechoslovak Communist lieutenants plan on that assumption. As late as October 26, the Soviet press had reported approvingly about the arrival of Benes' plenipotentiary in the Carpathian Ukraine, and the local Communist party boss, fresh on the scene from Moscow, had hailed the bright prospects of living in the same state with the Czechs and Slovaks.

"The Carpathian Ukraine, one of the most backward parts of Europe, was an economic liability to any owner, and Benes had not nurtured strong feelings about it. In 1939, he had told his confidants that it would be to Czechoslovakia's advantage to have the Russians there.” On several subsequent occasions, he had spoken to Majskij [the Soviet ambassador to Great Britain--DT] in the same vein. And during his Moscow visit in December, 1943, he had supposedly hinted to Stalin that the Soviet Union could have the area for the asking, but Stalin had shown no interest.

"The Russians considered the territory a potentially dangerous 'Piedmont' of Ukrainian separatism. Yet this alone would hardly explain the sudden reversal of their policy in October 1944. Their newly perceived need for a common border with Hungary after the unexpected pro-German coup there seems to have provided the impetus. And the near-certainty that the Benes government would not resist made it safe to proceed. By simultaneously raising doubts about the future of Slovakia, where several thousand additional Ukrainians lived, the Russians turned the screws on Benes, pressing also for Czechoslovak recognition of their puppet Lublin government of Poland.

"The Carpatho-Ukrainian affair was typical of Stalin's power diplomacy. After Benes had tried to temporize, the Soviet leader sent him an insidious letter recalling his earlier willingness to part with the territory, castigating the Czechoslovak government's presumed (though never actually stated) disapproval of the Soviet behavior there, and warning against any effort to interfere with the supposedly freely expressed will of the Ukrainian people. The result was not only Benes's obsequious protestation of good will but also a speedy recognition of Lublin by Czechoslovakia as the first country after the Soviet Union. The eventual cession of the Carpathian Ukraine was a foregone conclusion, and it was formalized soon after the end of the war..."

Vojtech Mastny, "The Czechoslovak Government-in-Exile During World War II." https://www.jstor.org/stable/41046033

(The Czechoslovaks. with Soviet approval, attempt to allay any concerns about Carpatho-Rus becoming a hotbed of Ukrainian nationalism by teaching the Rusyns that they are not Ukrainians but Rusyns, with a language admittedly related to, but not identical with, Ukrainian. To be sure, some Rusyns may reject this, and after the breakup of Czechoslovakia urge unification with Ukraine. But remember: Moldova didn't unite with Romania.)

You might say that an independent Carpatho-Rus would be too small and poor to survive, but maybe it retains some sort of economic and military union with Slovakia, while keeping its sovereignty and language.
 
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Incidentally, it is in Slovakia that the idea of the "Rusyns" as a separate ethnic group with its own language has gained the most traction in recent decades, not in the Zakarpattia Oblast (where of course this idea was totally suppressed under the Soviets and disapproved under independent Ukraine). Andy Warhol's Rusyn parents were from what is now Slovakia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikov%C3%A1
 
You need concentrate this diaspora. There is Rusyn diaspora in US but is spread up and interaracting. Slovak Rusyns in US are for example active in Slovak community but also some in Rusyn.
Is it possible for Rusyn diaspora in USA to keep the Rusyn language similar to how Yiddish, German, Spanish and Chinese have persisted in USA?
Another problem is due to ukrainizatiin of Ruthenia- from some 1.2 mil inhabitants only small number feels to be Rusyns and even their were under Ukrainian secret service observation.
Why did Rusyn's not feel Rusyn?
Polish Lemko were either repatriated to Ukraine after WWII or spread up on territories gained after WWII.
If the Polish Lemko keeps a rural lifestyle during the repressive rule of the communist regime that may increase the chances of Rusyn as a language. Once Poland liberalises then it mayb e possible to establish a urban presence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Vistula
https://culture.pl/en/article/the-lost-homeland-and-lasting-identity-of-the-lemko-people
1024px-Ukrainians_in_Poland_2002.PNG

Map shows the presence of "Ukrainians" in Poland, Lemkos are included in this map under the category "Ukrainians".
 
Today Ukraine accepts Rusyn language only as dialect of Ukrainian.
Czechia, Slovakia and USA recognises the Rusyns as a distinct ethnicity from Ukrainian. John McCain also sent a former Ukrainian head of state a letter urging Ukraine to recognise the Rusyn's.
 
Is it possible for Rusyn diaspora in USA to keep the Rusyn language similar to how Yiddish, German, Spanish and Chinese have persisted in USA?

Why did Rusyn's not feel Rusyn?
To fitst question, not sure. How many German speakrrs are there in US? Most of immigrants after second generation speak English. Already kids of new immigrants preffer English due to schools.

Second. There was never properly codified Rusyn language prior to 1918. Slovaks had two, in 18th and 19th century, but firstly went with Czech and Slovakized Czech in written form.

Ruthenians I guess were using Russian and later Ukrainian language. I read Russian was not preferred ad it was harder understandable. I believe there was one Rusyn priest in 19th century who was trying to codify it but it never happened.

As now Slovakia has higher official population of Rusyns - above 50k. In Ukraine only few hundreds are claiming to be Rusyns. In Poland some 11k.
In USA some 8000 k.

Interestingly Sgt. Michal Strank, Marine from Mt Suribachi is claimed both by Slovaks as well as Ruthenians. However years ago I read interview with his sister and she said family was Slovak. However they indeed were from area of Slovakia where Rusyn population is much higher.
 
Incidentally, it is in Slovakia that the idea of the "Rusyns" as a separate ethnic group with its own language has gained the most traction in recent decades, not in the Zakarpattia Oblast (where of course this idea was totally suppressed under the Soviets and disapproved under independent Ukraine). Andy Warhol's Rusyn parents were from what is now Slovakia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikov%C3%A1
Ss I said above Michael Strank is claimed by Ruthenians as well as Slovaks.
Ruthenians as separate nation were indeed suppressed in USSR and today Ukraine. Year or two before Crimes crisis there was meeting og Ukrainian Ruthenians. They were under USB observation and I believe Kiev was threatening them with jail time for treason or separatism.

In Slovakia Rusyns were never called Ikrainians not even during communist era when it was “official” However schools were only Ukrainian. But for everybody else they were Rusyns or “Rusnaci”.
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
Czechia, Slovakia and USA recognises the Rusyns as a distinct ethnicity from Ukrainian. John McCain also sent a former Ukrainian head of state a letter urging Ukraine to recognise the Rusyn's.
You know, I don't agree with McCain on many things but I have to respect him for this. He's shown consistency in standing up for Rusyns and other oppressed minorities like Kurds. And unlike the Kurds, supporting Rusyns doesn't actually further the geopolitical goals of the United States, so it's clear that he is doing this out of principle. I guess I should stop talking about this though because this isn't Chat.
 
To fitst question, not sure. How many German speakrrs are there in US? Most of immigrants after second generation speak English. Already kids of new immigrants preffer English due to schools.
It is mostly insular communities in the United States that keeps speaking non-English languages. Spanish is a exeption to this.
 
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