More Prepared Barbarossa

It doesnt matter how more prepared Barbarossa is, it wont affect the hard limit, which is the logistics.
More trucks wont help, they'll just run out of petrol faster.

The only thing that would be affected is the greater supply of reserves during the winter/spring, so the Ostheer would be in better shape after the Russian counteroffensive, but thats about it.
 
Well this is way outside the thinking of the Nazis but what if they did what the Union did in the US Civil war on a larger scale and had dedicated track laying units that put down temporary track as fast as they could to get their logistics as close to the front as they could, then carried it from there with trucks. They would have to find a way increase production early so they had enough production to ship to the front

They would also have to concentrate on building Locomotives, rolling stock and trucks/half-tracks so they would have some way to make use of the above increased production.

They would also have to have additional engineering resources improving the rail behind so that it didn't collapse during the spring/fall mud.

The way I see it there are several problems with these ideas -

1) Where does Germany get the additional materials to increase production enough to both build enough rail to make a difference and build enough Locomotives/rolling stock and trucks/half-tracks to move it to the front.
2) Where does Germany get the engineering resources to build thousands or tens of thousands of kilometers of new rail fast enough to make a dent in the logistics needs of a modern army. If they can do it they have a chance to do better, I am just not sure they can do it.
3) What about partisans? Is this just setting up a fixed route that is easy for Soviet partisans to attack? Frankly rail is easier to knock out than road, but it carries 10-25x as much for lower fuel costs so is it worth the additional troops needed to protect it?
4) Is the Soviet Union just too big for this to work? It worked in the US during the Civil war but the distances were shorter.
5) Is this too out there for the Nazis to even think of?

Tom.

Edit: Thought of one more possible problem...
 
None of these proposals are enough. The best Germany could do with these resources is hold Rostov and advance a bit further at Moscow. In the end they're still outnumbered and lack the appropriate logistics to sustain their forces. One can't simply replace an entire rail system within a few months, especially when encircled Red Army divisions and partisans made it impossible for rail work to be done until the rear areas were cleared, which took quite a while.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Well this is way outside the thinking of the Nazis but what if they did what the Union did in the US Civil war on a larger scale and had dedicated track laying units that put down temporary track as fast as they could to get their logistics as close to the front as they could, then carried it from there with trucks. They would have to find a way increase production early so they had enough production to ship to the front

They would also have to concentrate on building Locomotives, rolling stock and trucks/half-tracks so they would have some way to make use of the above increased production.

They would also have to have additional engineering resources improving the rail behind so that it didn't collapse during the spring/fall mud.

The way I see it there are several problems with these ideas -

1) Where does Germany get the additional materials to increase production enough to both build enough rail to make a difference and build enough Locomotives/rolling stock and trucks/half-tracks to move it to the front.
2) Where does Germany get the engineering resources to build thousands or tens of thousands of kilometers of new rail fast enough to make a dent in the logistics needs of a modern army. If they can do it they have a chance to do better, I am just not sure they can do it.
3) What about partisans? Is this just setting up a fixed route that is easy for Soviet partisans to attack? Frankly rail is easier to knock out than road, but it carries 10-25x as much for lower fuel costs so is it worth the additional troops needed to protect it?
4) Is the Soviet Union just too big for this to work? It worked in the US during the Civil war but the distances were shorter.
5) Is this too out there for the Nazis to even think of?

Tom.

Edit: Thought of one more possible problem...

The Nazi did have dedicated teams of railway workers, who were under civilian command. The basic process need is to unpin the rails, move them into the narrow gauge distance and re pin to the wooden railroad ties. After that, the crew needs to repair any damage done to the railroad by the war. It is more a labor issue than a material issue on fixing the tracks. The Germans did not make the workers work on weekends and holidays at the start of the war, so it is easy to speed up the process with an order from Hitler.

At the corp level and below, the level of fuel, ammo, and food decline constantly through the first few months of the war. Besides the lack of narrow gauge rail, what was the bottle neck. Was it lack of supplies, lack of trains, or lack of transport from the unloading rail head to the soldier? I am not sure about which is the main bottleneck.

But on the original POD for the post, if Germany goes to full wartime production and has more supplies, more trains, and more replacement equipment, they could certainly done better than OTL, but it probably does not win them the war.
 
Firstly he was aware of the poor performance of the Red Army against Finland. He knew his army needed to be reorganized and re equipped. He wanted to avoid a war until 1942.
That the war was coming wasn't something he could do anything about. Besides, ordering his troops not to retaliate (which he did IIRC) only makes them easier targets.

Secondly he just didn't believe that Hitler who had made a pact with him precisely in order to avoid a two-front war would then start a two-front war.
Right, so he's just building up an army to parade through captured cities?
 

Cook

Banned
Not provoking Britain will delay the start its bombing offensive...
Provoking? They were already at war and the British had been bombing Germany since May 1940; nothing Germany does is going to delay the British strategic bombing campaign. Britain simply had no other significant way of reaching out against Germany.
Scrap any thought of a Battle of Britain, save fuel and planes and pilots for the eastern campaign.
History would say that Hitler, after having crushed France in a matter of six weeks and with Britain lying defenceless a mere twenty miles away across the Straits of Dover then chose to throw away any opportunity to win the war by crushing Great Britain and instead set about preparing an attack on his main ally in the east.
 
The only improvements that would possibly have helped the Nazis would have been a much stronger emphasis on logistics, and as it was in June 1941 the Nazis had yet to have a significant failure in a war and as it was IOTL they didn't have an actual tactical defeat until the Battle of Rostov, so.......

The Nazis would require here a means to see how the war would end before they start it, and even Hitler I don't think would have started his war if he'd seen how it would have actually ended up.
 
Provoking? They were already at war and the British had been bombing Germany since May 1940; nothing Germany does is going to delay the British strategic bombing campaign. Britain simply had no other significant way of reaching out against Germany.

History would say that Hitler, after having crushed France in a matter of six weeks and with Britain lying defenceless a mere twenty miles away across the Straits of Dover then chose to throw away any opportunity to win the war by crushing Great Britain and instead set about preparing an attack on his main ally in the east.
Germany didn't have a sufficient Amphibious lift capacity and with most of her Naval units either sunk or damaged during the Battle for Norway...

Not enough Naval escorts to protect those German river barges to cross the Channel.....

Best bet... use the Luftwaffe to bomb all British Airfields within German Fighter range and keep striking any industrial cities WITHIN German Fighter range escorts to keep the British guessing....

Try to deplete the British Fighter Wing while keeping Germany's bomber Wing heavily escorted and protected while Germany's Fighter Wings attack the British Airfields with JU87 bombing runs and Fighter strafing runs...
 
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