More (or stronger) Presidential Dynasties?

Zioneer

Banned
What if there were either a greater number of U.S. Presidential Dynasties, or long-lasting ones?

How about making the Presidential Dynasties so ingrained in the mind of the average U.S. citizen that by the present day, they are treated as a kind of noble class?

What if this removes political parties, while creating feuding "noble" parties?

Of course, since this is the U.S., it would be a more equal-opportunity noble society, but what would be the ramification?

Finally, in a few pre-1900 (unrelated) TLs, I've seen a sort of "nobility-by-examination" system, wherein peasantry of sufficient skill (or in the U.S.'s case, the average person who got lucky) are invited to join the noble class, instead of creating a new merchant class. Could this work with the U.S.?
 
Well, the existing ones would have to be fixed. The Rockefellers are still in public life, but not on the presidential level. Only the Bushes managed to get two different generations elected POTUS. Speaking as a Kexpert, it would be relatively easy for a POTUS John-John or RFK Jr. (Bobby Jr. was long seen as the presidentiable-designate before dabbling with drugs and Pelosi-ism) with PODs in the 1990s and 1980s respectively.
 

Cook

Banned
What you are proposing is the last century of the Roman Republic prior to Augustus establishing the Protectorate.
 

Zioneer

Banned
What you are proposing is the last century of the Roman Republic prior to Augustus establishing the Protectorate.

Well, why not? The Founding Fathers emulated a lot of the government of the Roman Republic, so it seems reasonable.
 

Cook

Banned
Well, why not? The Founding Fathers emulated a lot of the government of the Roman Republic, so it seems reasonable.

The Founders of the United States were great admirers of the Roman Republic and students of history. They deliberately set out to borrow the finer elements of the Republican system and avoid the pitfalls that befell Rome. They had no wish to repeat the mistakes of the past.
 
I think I could see it happening if one of Teddy Roosevelts children were elected president. Other than that, it would have to be the Kennedy's or the Rockefeller's.

As an example...

JFK lives, and goes on to be re-elected, and is one of the most sucsessful Presidents of the 20th century. RFK is elected later in 1976, and Teddy Kenndy is elected in 1988. Today we have President John F. Kenneddy Jr. or perhapse Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

so for fun...

(D)John F. Kennedy, 1961-1969
(R)Richard M. Nixon, 1969-1974
(R)Gerald Ford, 1964-1977
(D)Robert F. Kennedy, 1977-1985
(R)George H.W. Bush, 1985-1989
(D)Edward M. Kennedy, 1989-1997
(R)Robert Dole, 1997-2001
(D)Robert F. Kennedy Jr., 2001-2009
(D)John F. Kennedy Jr., 2009-Present

Probably unrealistic, but not impossible. :eek:
 
I don't see Ted being elected if Bobby wins in 1976 and 1980. RFK Jr, however, is an excellent possibility. He was by far the star (intellectually and physically) of the boys in that part of the family. Still is, but drugs, felonies and Pelosi-ism caused irreparable damage.
 
I don't see Ted being elected if Bobby wins in 1976 and 1980. RFK Jr, however, is an excellent possibility. He was by far the star (intellectually and physically) of the boys in that part of the family. Still is, but drugs, felonies and Pelosi-ism caused irreparable damage.

Er...what is Pelosi-ism? :eek:
 
The original method of electing the Senate and the Electoral College both show that the Founders wanted a government with checks on mass democracy. The level of democarcy in today's politics would horrify them.

Taking it a step further, they may have considered a formal status requirement on voters and holders of public office, attained through educational requirements open to only a certain class in society, or those who had attained a level of sucees without a formal social pedigree (such as Hamilton). They didn't, probably because they expected the equivalent of the gentry class to always be in a leading position in their Republic.

Apart from the Bushes, the Adams, Harrison and Roosevelt families managed to put more than one member into the White House. Presidential dynasties are not unusual to American history. Presidents three through five (Jefferson, Madison, Monroe) were not family, but formed a Virginia Dynasty at the start of the Republic.

However, as a formal mechanism, I think the founders, looking at the Roman example and the nature of royal houses in Europe, would have rejected any formalized dynastic structure as corrupting to the health of the Republic. In fact I'm surprised they didn't include having a father or a grandfather who had been President as a disqualifying factor for holding the office.
 
One big dynasty that I haven't seen in the presidency much yet is the Udalls. Originally big in Arizona, the family has now spread to political posts all over the western United States. You have Stewart Udall, JFK's Secretary of the Interior, Mo Udall, representative from Arizona for 30 years, Tom and Mark Udall, current senators from New Mexico and Colorado, and a few others.

A diagram of the Udall family tree and its connections with other political families.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b3/Udallpoliticalfamily.gif
 
One of the most underdeveloped political dynasties is IMO, the Roosevelts. For putting out both T.R. and F.D.R. and having a number of other political figures in both the Oyster Bay (Republican) and Hyde Park (Democratic) branches of the family.

If you want an Oyster Bay dynasty to follow Teddy, look no further than T.R.'s son, Theodore Roosevelt Jr. Teddy Roosevelt Jr. actually was the GOP nominee for Governor of New York in 1924, but thanks to vigorous campaigning from his cousins Eleanor and Franklin for Smith and against him (thanks largely to his involvement in the Tea Pot Dome mess while Secretary of the Navy), he went down by an extremely small margin to Smith. Have butterflies shift a few votes around, and in 1925, you've got Governor Theodore Roosevelt, Jr.

Junior will probably get re-elected in 1926 and 1928, but probably will either retire in 1930 or get booted out because of the Depression. When Hoover gets thrown out in '32 by whomever conservative Democrat is nominated (likely not F.D.R., with T.R. occupying his OTL time in Albany), while T.R. plans his own run for President down the line. Conservadem wins re-election in 1936, but by 1940, the field is ripe for a challenge to the economic orthodoxy. T.R. is elected President by a hefty margin, and begins stepping up U.S. preparedness efforts for war in Europe.

Other Oyster Bay Roosevelts that could possibly get elected to some sort of office are rather slim. There's Archibald Roosevelt, but then again, there's the tiny fact that he was an extreme right-winger. And I'm not exaggerating, either. He was a member of the John Birch Society. :eek:

On the other hand, the Hyde Park Roosevelts are a plenty with possible ATL presidents.

James Roosevelt, the eldest of the Hyde Park branch, was actually a U.S. Representative from California from 1955 to 1965. Prior to that, he attempted to run for Governor of California in 1950, but lost to Earl Warren, and attempted a primary challenge to Sam Yorty for Mayor of Los Angeles, but again, came up short. The easiest POD I can think of here is somehow have Roosevelt manage to knock Sam Yorty out of the primary and win the general election. He serves as mayor of Los Angeles until the end of the Reagan governorship, then moves to run for the governorship himself, which he's elected to in 1974. Of course, you can have him make a bid for the White House in '76 (when he'd be nearly seventy years old). It'd be a long shot, but older men have been elected from the California Governorship to the Presidency, after all. :p

Franklin Roosevelt Jr., is the second most politically astute of the Hyde Park Roosevelts. He served in Congress from 1949 until 1955, and was nominated for Attorney General of New York in 1954, though he would ultimately lose the election to that post. Let's say butterflies have him become Attorney General in '55, serve until '63, and then head for the Governorship against Nelson Rockefeller. In a battle between the Roosevelts and the Rockefellers, let's give the edge to the Roosevelt, who becomes Governor of New York in 1963. Re-elected over Rockefeller again in 1966, but at a much smaller margin, Roosevelt sets his sights on the White House, but decides against a run in 1968, which looks like it's going to be sheer chaos. After winning re-election in 1970, he makes his bid for the Democratic nomination in '72, and is granted the V.P. spot on a ticket headed by Henry Jackson. Jackson goes down, but Roosevelt presses forward, and is nominated by the Democrats in 1976 as their candidate for President...
 
What about Susan Eisenhower? Worked with enough think tanks and has enough media experience and senate committees and has the pedegree name to maybe land a senate seat after someone retires or dies. Does that for a couple of years. Maybe get a cabinet or Veep nod. An assassination or death and here we all are. :rolleyes:
 
Or you could have Quentin Roosevelt survive and go into politics. He was considered the most promising of the Teddy Roosevelt children.
 
Or you could have Quentin Roosevelt survive and go into politics. He was considered the most promising of the Teddy Roosevelt children.
 
Not that I have any specific ideas as to how to make it happen, but the Cuomo family would have shown promise if Mario ever won the White House, given Andrew's fairly obvious drive.
 
Dynasty: POTUS List

36. Lyndon B. Johnson (D-TX): November 22nd 1963-January 20th 1969
37. George W. Romney (R-MI): January 20th 1969-January 20th 1977**
38. Robert F. “Bobby” Kennedy (D-NY): January 20th 1977-January 20th 1981
39. Charles H. “Chuck” Percy (R-IL): January 20th-March 30th 1981*
40. Ronald E. “Ron” Paul (R-TX): March 30th 1981-January 20th 1989
41. Alexander M. Haig (R-PA): January 20th 1989-January 20th 1993

42. Mario M. Cuomo (D-NY): January 20th 1993-January 20th 2001**
43. Craig L. Thomas (R-WY): January 20th 2001-July 4th 2006*
44. Willard “Mitt” Romney (R-MA): July 4th 2006-January 20th 2009**

45. Andrew M. Cuomo (D-NY): January 20th 2009-January 20th 2013**
46. Randal H. “Rand” Paul (R-KY): January 20th 2013-January 20th 2017
47. Artur G. Davis (D-AL): January 20th 2017-???**

Notes.

37. First Mormon President
38. First Brother of a former President to be elected
39. Assassinated via Revolver by John Hinckley
42. First Italian American President
43. Died in office due to complications of Leukemia
44. First Son of a President to ascend to the White House in almost two centuries, also Only President never to be elected(Due to the resignation of Vice President David Drier in 2005 on Gay Sex Scandal charges.)
45. First Son of a President to be elected in the 21st Century
47. First African American President

Veep List

38. Hubert H. Humphrey (D-MN): January 20th 1965-January 20th 1969
39. Roman L. Hruska (R-NE): January 20th 1969-January 20th 1977
40. Lawton M. Chiles Jr. (D-FL): January 20th 1977-January 20th 1981
41. Ronald E. “Ron” Paul (R-TX): January 20th-March 30th 1981
Vacant: March 30th-May 21st 1981
42. Alexander M. Haig (R-PA): May 21st 1981-January 20th 1989
43. Carroll A. Campbell Jr. (R-SC): January 20th 1989-January 20th 1993

44. Henry G. Ciseneros (D-TX): January 20th 1993-January 20th 1997**
45. Paul D. Wellstone (D-MN): January 20th 1997-January 20th 2001**

46. David T. Drier (R-CA): January 20th 2001-October 10th 2005***
Vacant: October 10th-December 7th 2005
47. Willard Mitt Romney (R-MA): December 7th 2005-July 4th 2006
Vacant: July 4th-September 11th 2006
48. Randal H. “Rand” Paul (R-KY): September 11th 2006-January 20th 2009
49. James H. “Jim” Webb (D-VA): January 20th 2009-January 20th 2013
50. Susan E. Eisenhower (R-PA): January 20th 2013-January 20th 2017**
51. Wesley K. Clarke (D-AK): January 20th 2017-???

Notes

44. First Hispanic American Vice President
45. First Jewish American Vice President
46. First to resign the Vice Presidency due to Gay Sex Scandal
50. First Female Vice President
 
Not that I have any specific ideas as to how to make it happen, but the Cuomo family would have shown promise if Mario ever won the White House, given Andrew's fairly obvious drive.

Well, Andrew Cuomo looks (at this very early stage) to have an excellent shot in 2016 as is, assuming that neither Joe Biden nor Hillary Clinton run.
 
Top