More national delimitation worldwide

CaliGuy

Banned
Throughout the 20th century, national borders were often redrawn to be based (more-or-less) on ethnic lines. Overall, this is especially evident in various parts of Europe as well as throughout the former Soviet Union.

Anyway, what I am curious about is if there is a realistic way to have even more national delimitation worldwide. Also, it would be extremely strongly preferable for this to be done without any ethnic cleansing and/or genocide; thus, things such as large-scale expulsions and whatnot should certainly be avoided at all costs!

Any thoughts on how to achieve more national delimitation worldwide?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Also, if you want, you can draw some borders based on religious lines rather than based on ethnic lines; indeed, the 1947 Partition of India is an excellent example of delimitation based on religious lines in our TL.
 
Draw borders in the Middle East and Africa so ethnic groups who can't work together aren't stuck together? Europe really fucked up in not doing that in the first place.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Draw borders in the Middle East and Africa so ethnic groups who can't work together aren't stuck together? Europe really fucked up in not doing that in the first place.
Completely agreed; however, unfortunately it was a different time back then. Indeed, back then, even White people didn't always have national self-determination (for instance, take a look at the Italians in Austria-Hungary up to 1918)!

Anyway, though, was it realistic for Europeans to try fixing this after the end of WWII and before they actually gave their colonies independence? After all, if both Palestine and India were successfully partitioned, couldn't partition have likewise been a realistic option for some other European colonies?
 
Throughout the 20th century, national borders were often redrawn to be based (more-or-less) on ethnic lines. Overall, this is especially evident in various parts of Europe as well as throughout the former Soviet Union.

Anyway, what I am curious about is if there is a realistic way to have even more national delimitation worldwide. Also, it would be extremely strongly preferable for this to be done without any ethnic cleansing and/or genocide; thus, things such as large-scale expulsions and whatnot should certainly be avoided at all costs!

And there's the killer. There were very few places in the world where there were sharp ethnic boundaries that did not match political boundaries. Where divergent ethnic/political boundaries were matched, it was through population exchanges or expulsions. All other attempts to match failed, leaving a lot of disgruntled people on both sides.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
And there's the killer. There were very few places in the world where there were sharp ethnic boundaries that did not match political boundaries. Where divergent ethnic/political boundaries were matched, it was through population exchanges or expulsions. All other attempts to match failed, leaving a lot of disgruntled people on both sides.
There are some cases where a relatively clear ethnic delimitation is possible without ethnic cleansing and expulsions, though; for instance, take a look at the borders of the various ex-USSR states.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Also, I'm obviously not talking about perfection in regards to this (since that would be both immoral and impractical); thus, something like the OTL Romania-Hungary border would qualify for this since it is more-or-less based on ethnic lines. (Yes, there are some Hungarian towns on the Romanian side of the border; however, it's a minor issue. Also, the Szekely demographic "island" in Transylvania doesn't really count for this since it is completely surrounded by Romanian-majority territory.)
 

CaliGuy

Banned
There are some cases where a relatively clear ethnic delimitation is possible without ethnic cleansing and expulsions, though; for instance, take a look at the borders of the various ex-USSR states.
Indeed, Communists appear to have been real good at this; thus, how could we get Communists in power in more countries where they will do this only for these countries to implode USSR-style sometime afterwards?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Throughout the 20th century, national borders were often redrawn to be based (more-or-less) on ethnic lines. Overall, this is especially evident in various parts of Europe as well as throughout the former Soviet Union.

Anyway, what I am curious about is if there is a realistic way to have even more national delimitation worldwide. Also, it would be extremely strongly preferable for this to be done without any ethnic cleansing and/or genocide; thus, things such as large-scale expulsions and whatnot should certainly be avoided at all costs!

Any thoughts on how to achieve more national delimitation worldwide?
Anyway, I feel that, after several months, I should try answering my own question here. Indeed, off the top of my head, I can think of five further cases where this could realistically be done without changing anything else too much (for instance, I certainly wouldn't want to, say, keep Austria-Hungary or the Soviet Union around indefinitely):

1. The U.S. declares war on the Ottoman Empire during WWI. In turn, this results in the creation of a nominally independent Kurdistan--as a British League of Nations Mandate--in the northern, Kurdish-majority parts of Iraq. Perhaps Kurdistan could annex the Kurdish-majority parts of Syria in 1941--after the British and Free French liberated Syria and Lebanon from Vichy rule--in this TL.

Later on, could we see the Iranian Kurds try breaking away and joining Kurdistan after Iran descends into revolution? Any thoughts on this?

2. The Soviet Union gives more backing to the Second East Turkestan Republic and thus allows it to conquer all of Xinjiang:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_East_Turkestan_Republic

Thus, a nominal independent Uyghur state could be created in Xinjiang--a state which will become genuinely independent after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...g/1200px-Xinjiang_in_China_(de-facto).svg.png

1200px-Xinjiang_in_China_%28de-facto%29.svg.png


3. The Communists seize power in Indonesia in the 1960s and proceed to federalize Indonesia into various ethnic SSRs. True, the linguistic diversity of Indonesia will make this a Hell more of a challenge than in the Soviet Union; however, if various smaller ethnic groups are lumped together into one SSR, perhaps this could be done:

http://www.documentingalta.com/uploads/1/7/3/4/17340475/1848532_orig.png?395

1848532_orig.png


Indeed, does anyone know what the position of the Indonesian Communists in regards to national delineation was?

4. The victorious Allies decide to create an independent Greater Somalia after the end of World War II:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Somali_map.jpg

Somali_map.jpg


Afterwards, this independent Greater Somalia needs to be stable enough to avoid imploding and breaking up into several states.

5. Igbo-majority Biafra succeeds in its war against Nigeria in the late 1960s and thus has its independence recognized:

https://i.onthe.io/vllkyt5fcb48eqppk.ecc67fe9.jpg

vllkyt5fcb48eqppk.ecc67fe9.jpg


Due to the shock of losing a war against Biafra, the rest of Nigeria gradually disintegrates and eventually breaks up into two separate countries--a Yoruba-majority country in the southwest and a Hausa and Fulani-majority country in the north:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aVXn-JTEIik/UoB5oYnMmkI/AAAAAAAAAGs/9lFc58Favmg/s1600/tribe3.jpg

tribe3.jpg


Are there any other examples that I am missing here?

For instance, could the Soviet Union have indefinitely maintained its occupation of the Azeri-majority and Kurdish-majority areas of Iran?
 
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