More Ju-88s?

Deleted member 1487

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_287

While the JU-287 was not a Ju-88 line , with the above design I got to thinking that the longevity of the JU-88 design was in its ability to mount improved engines as the war progressed. Naturally I wondered if the JU-88 could replace the main engines with jets...but it would cut payload range in 1/2.

So I wondered if could two Jumo-004 jets could be attached to the existing JU-88 fuselage - just like in the JU-287 ?

If nothing else a simplified power/weight ratio suggests the to speed could be boosted by 29% [330mph to 426mph]
Not really structurally set up for them I think.
 
There was a limit on space and like how the bombs in the He111 are in a vertical arrangement which limits internal ability to carry more, it was done that way to cut down on space needed for bombs and to streamline the aircraft. Bomb bay design advanced as the war went on, but in the case of the Ju288 it's back kept breaking because it's fuselage had a lot of stress put on it's slender frame due to the way the bomb bay was laid out. The Mosquito had a tiny little bomb bay that required existing bombs to be heavily modified to fit in it. Again the He111 and He177 were intended for different roles than the Ju88 was when ordered, but the latter was required to do missions it was not intended for.

Nobody said that bomb bay of He 111 was ideal.
I've perused the book by K.H. Regnat about the Ju-288, there is no single mention of a picture of a 288 that crashed or was otherwise destroyed due to supposedly weak fuselage. The fix for the 500 lbs bombs in order to fit on Mosquito was as simple modification as possible - the stabilizers were trimmed down.



Two things interfere her: 1st - I don't have a book, 2nd - with 200 € is above budget for us no-rich.


The Do-217 was nearly killed until Milch took back power and put it at higher priority to lessen the dependence on Junkers aircraft. Junkers, had it gotten the Ju288 contract would have replaced the He111 and killed the He177. The Bomber B was supposed to replace all medium bombers and even take on some of the strategic bomber roles too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomber_B

Dependance to Ju 88, not 288, that was a two year later design than the Do 217. The Do 217 was a far better bomb truck than the Ju 88 at any rate.

50kg bombs actually have a ton of utility, the heavier ordnance was intended for missions the Ju88 wasn't supposed to even undertake when ordered in 1935. Later it was decided to put it into a bunch of roles it was not initially intended for. The Ju88 wasn't meant to be as fast as the Bf110, nor was the Bf110 intended to do the tactical bombing missions expected of the Ju88 (until 1940 the Bf110 wasn't intended to be a bomber at all).

Since the range was stipulated to be 2000 km for the 1st examples of the Ju 88, with slight increase as war dragged on, it certainly was not designed as a tactical bomber. This is why they have had Ju 87 in production.

The Germans didn't know about the Mosquito until 1942, so the fact that a better "Schnell bomber" was invented by the enemy later on with even more radical speed concepts (wood, no defensive armament whatsoever, 2 crew) is meaningless. Certainly having a DB603 ready in 1941 was possible with some technical PODs and would have made the Ju88 into a very interesting aircraft.

I've posted nothing meaningless. A bomber with a better (or not worse) bomb bay than prevoius designs is certainly not ASB territory, and plays nicely to the fast bomber concept.

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ju88g7.html

Ju 88G-6.
The G-7 was with 2-stage supercharged 213E, unlike the G-6 with 1-stage supercharged 213A. A year apart in OTL.

Not sure if that would really be that necessary, but would probably be better than the Me109.

Starts with 125 L of internal fuel more than 109, or ~30% more, as-is.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_287

While the JU-287 was not a Ju-88 line , with the above design I got to thinking that the longevity of the JU-88 design was in its ability to mount improved engines as the war progressed. Naturally I wondered if the JU-88 could replace the main engines with jets...but it would cut payload range in 1/2.

So I wondered - could two Jumo-004 jets be attached to the existing JU-88 fuselage - just like in the JU-287 ?

If nothing else a simplified power/weight ratio suggests the speed could be boosted by 29% [330mph to 426mph]

path never pursued was mixed propulsion aircraft...ONE benefit to Udet requirement for dive bombing is that JU-88 airframe is certainly strong
 
Henschel keeps building underrated HS-123 until contracted to build JU-88 ... the French G-R engines used on cancelled HS-129 could have just gone to convert more (existing) gliders to transports ...

Well I'd say keep them making Hs123s through the end of the war. They were more useful even than the Ju88 in the East. And yes the French engines would have been probably most useful for transports in that case.


should have said keep producing HS-123 AT LEAST until contracted to build JU-88s, if nothing else they produced over 500 HS-126s a throwaway aircraft they were looking to replace almost from time it entered service ... replaced with ... FW-189 ... which could also have benefited from French Gnome-Rhone radials ...

my understanding that Gotha GO-244 was no great aircraft but they also spent little time on it ... and like the HS-123 it could land anywhere
 
I am surprised no one in this thread said the obvious: This is merely is adding more deck chairs to the Titanic.
Because it is obvious.

Nearly all what if questions about the Axis don't make enough difference on their own. It has to be a combination of several changes at least. I started a thread called How Many Dominoes Have To Fall to examine this, but it did not catch on.
 
Last edited:

FBKampfer

Banned
The core problem was that Germany lacked design experience with strategic bombers, and insisted on betting the whole thing on the Jumo 222 or the DB610 when they finally had a practical airframe.

Germany could have produced an extra 4000 Ju 88's, and it wouldn't have meant squat. To operate on the Western Front, they needed something ungodly fast, like the Fw 189 or Ju 388 to keep loss rates sustainable. They simply lacked the aircraft to escort their bombers while engaged in the East.

And in the east, they needed a strategic bomber like the He 177, or more preferably the Me 264. Even a reduction in performance to get it earlier would have been worthwhile. Soviet aircraft were generally garbage at high altitude, a few models possessing passable performance but limited armament. But by and large, a strategic bombing campaign would have been viable without strong escort.
 
Then lets examine what it would take to make the Me-261 work. Its already light years ahead of He-177 with range & speed. It can carry 2t to 8000km [4938 miles] OR fly 13,000km with 700kg load, so it could scourge the North Atlantic and reach the Urals and back.
 
Perhaps we have a mis-understanding. My point was that Udet/Hitler/Goering/pick-what-ever gets easily blamed for anything, while they were not guilty for everything. Case in this being the designers of the Ju 88 disregared a purpose of a bomber - to carry bombs in a better fashion than designs receeding it. Even the Do 17 have had a bomb bay.
I hear what you're saying. Furthermore their expedient demises meant that they could not answer the charges made by their critics. So the surviving members of the high command could have passed on some of their mistakes on to pick-whoever-died because they can't reply.

In the case of Udet everybody I read seems to think that he was a superb pilot, but not up to the job of running the Luftwaffe's Technical Office. I read that the RLM specified 50,000 changes to the Ju88 before it went into production. It's a pity for the Luftwaffe that Udet did not specify a 50,001st. That is a bigger bomb bay. However, for all I know the Ju88 as built could not have accepted a bigger bomb bay.

In the case of Goering I read a long time ago that he was a man of ability, but Hitler gave him too many jobs to do so that he did not have the time to do any of them well. I can't remember which book I read this story in, but it was along the lines of one of his generals wanted to see him. Goering replied that the general could come to his estate and see him for an hour. For that hour Goering gave advice that the general though was very good. However, when the hour was up Goering refused to discuss business any further and spent the rest of the day showing the general around his estate including his collection of looted art treasures.
 
Top