More Improvised Airforces?

[Berra]

The war nerd mentioned how the Tamil Tigers has their own improvised airforce. It's made up by a few small propeller planes. Some small propeller planes are not that hard to come by so what are the possibility that more/almost all guerilla groups get their own airforce? And how are we getting more of them?

http://www.exile.ru/2007-June-01/no_paper_tigers.html

 

[The Dean]

That's pretty much how the Israeli Air Force started back in 1948.

 

[CalBear]

The Tigers get away with it because the legitimate government of Sri Lanka is so weak. Aircraft are tied to airfields, even if they are grass strips, and in most insurgencies the insurgents face forces with radar. As an example, can you imagine the Basques, IRA, PLO or Iraqi insurgents pulling the same stunt as the Tigers? Even once? How about twice?

You need unique circumstances, such as exist on Sri Lanka, to make it work. Otherwise you wind up with a few stacks of scrap metal.

 

[Hecatee]

I think most african, indonesian and south american rebellions could also use such improvised aircraft. They might even get as far as getting some collection WWII warbirds and get potent weapons, much better than what Sri Lanka has.

 

[Berra]

The Tigers get away with it because the legitimate government of Sri Lanka is so weak. Aircraft are tied to airfields, even if they are grass strips, and in most insurgencies the insurgents face forces with radar. As an example, can you imagine the Basques, IRA, PLO or Iraqi insurgents pulling the same stunt as the Tigers? Even once? How about twice?

You need unique circumstances, such as exist on Sri Lanka, to make it work. Otherwise you wind up with a few stacks of scrap metal.

Those are rebellions against first world contries and powerful at that. I was thinking of thierd world countries.

 

[Fellatio Nelson]

Those are rebellions against first world contries and powerful at that. I was thinking of thierd world countries.

Most 3rd world air forces could deal with light aircraft fitted with rocket pods. More pertinent would be from where these aircraft would operate. Not too easy to hide once they are airborne: have to land somewhere.

It's sort of as pointless as them buying a tank or two. Why bother, when you could spend the money on munitions and intelligence?

 

[Michael B]

If one helicopter constitutes an air force then Frelimo have one in
A Time to Die by Wilbur Smith. They didn't buy it though. They captured it.

 

[Jason]

During the Nigerian Civil War, Biffara (sp?) actually had such an air force that I believe did cause the government forces some problems, at least in the early stages.

 

[Fellatio Nelson]

During the Nigerian Civil War, Biffara (sp?) actually had such an air force that I believe did cause the government forces some problems, at least in the early stages.

Biafra.

I only know that cos I is black.



Actually, Ireland and New Zealand would have a few problems dealing with a lone "rogue" aircraft, unless it flew within range of their manportable SAMs. The former would be pretty much reliant on the RAF/FAF for support in such a situation; the latter rely on their isolated position to keep safe (although I believe they have some Sidewinders for their Orion patrol aircraft, which would work - at a push - at dealing with a light aircraft or an airliner).

 

[Jason]

I wonder if Canada and Australia might also have problems? Their own air forces are small, esp given the actual size of their territory-a lone light aircraft might do some symbolic damage? cause havoc in some remote settlement?

Taking this idea a little further, how about drugs producers fielding similar sorts of air forces-the smaller Caribean nations could have problems dealing with such a threat (even allowing for US intervention in such a situation).

Actually, Ireland and New Zealand would have a few problems dealing with a lone "rogue" aircraft, unless it flew within range of their manportable SAMs. The former would be pretty much reliant on the RAF/FAF for support in such a situation; the latter rely on their isolated position to keep safe (although I believe they have some Sidewinders for their Orion patrol aircraft, which would work - at a push - at dealing with a light aircraft or an airliner).

 

[arctic warrior]

Remember Mathias Rust and the Red Airforce!!!!!

 

[Fellatio Nelson]

I wonder if Canada and Australia might also have problems? Their own air forces are small, esp given the actual size of their territory-a lone light aircraft might do some symbolic damage? cause havoc in some remote settlement?

Yeah, I suppose if an aircraft was shipped there, taken to a remote location hundreds - thousands? - of miles from the nearest airbase, but I suppose a) any such target would probably be insignificant (or if anything remote yet important, guarded with some form of air defence system since 911); b) extremely difficult to achieve in the first place.

Taking this idea a little further, how about drugs producers fielding similar sorts of air forces-the smaller Caribean nations could have problems dealing with such a threat (even allowing for US intervention in such a situation).

Doubt it. The Caribbean is crawling with electronic stuff, principally to keep an eye on drugs smugglers.

 

[Flocculencio]

Biafra.

Were those the guys who had the crazy Swedish count commanding their air assets? Great story there

 

[Melvin Loh]

Well, WI during the early-mid 1990s the Croats & Bosnians had managed to scrape tog a bit more of an airforce to harass the Serbs ? Maybe if they'd managed to seize a few ex-Yugo AF GALEBs & JASTREBs, & imrpovised a substantial no. of civ planes like crop-dusters into an offensive role (just like how the BiH created their own homemade AFVs) ?

 

[CalBear]

I wonder if Canada and Australia might also have problems? Their own air forces are small, esp given the actual size of their territory-a lone light aircraft might do some symbolic damage? cause havoc in some remote settlement?

Taking this idea a little further, how about drugs producers fielding similar sorts of air forces-the smaller Caribean nations could have problems dealing with such a threat (even allowing for US intervention in such a situation).

The Carribean is one of the most closely monitored airspaces on Earth. It makes the Cold War era inter-German border look like the Northern reaches of the Alaska/Canada frontier by comparison.

The U.S. maintains not just round the clock AWACS coverage, Coast Guard, DEA & Customs Service (ICE) patrols, and routine USN, USMC & USAF training flights that can double as observation and interception events, they also have radar blimps that observe the entire region. I'm pretty sure that a single bumble bee would be observed and tracked.

Canada doesn't have a large Air Force, but it IS the critical interception portion of the NORAD ADZ. The radars up there are so powerful that they can set birds on fire in mid-flight & there are multiple sets of them.

 

[Chengar Qordath]

How effective would most modern anti-air missiles be against a propeller plane made mostly out of wood and cloth? I am no expert on the matter, but I would think that most missiles out there would not be designed to track that kind of target. Plus, old propeller planes can fly much lower to the ground due to their lower speed, which would make them harder to spot with radar.

 

[CalBear]

How effective would most modern anti-air missiles be against a propeller plane made mostly out of wood and cloth? I am no expert on the matter, but I would think that most missiles out there would not be designed to track that kind of target. Plus, old propeller planes can fly much lower to the ground due to their lower speed, which would make them harder to spot with radar.

This would be correct IF we were still in a exclusively ground based radar enviroment. To use the Carribean example, the systems there are almost all air based and you almost literally need to be flying THROUGH tunnels to escape it. Over water, you are dead meat, the newest doppler based radars will find a target even in serious clutter (they are designed to find cruise missiles flying at wavetop level as well as higher, faster targets). All that prevents 100% interdiction of air delivered drugs in the region is the remarkably sane policy that forbids air to air engagement and destruction of contacts that refuse to follow instruction.

Modern SAMs can handle almost any type of target, some of the Russian designs even have an optical back up sighting option. MANPADS lock up on heat differential from the background, even a simple internal combustion engine gives off heat. Lastly, you don't NEED SAMs to kill small civil aviation aircraft. A simple 5.56 or 7.62 machine gun will do the job quite nicely, especially if the enemy is flying low & slow.

 

[Alexius]

A couple of air forces have used improvised squadrons. The Bosnian Serb air force had a unit (92 LEVN) composed of assorted light aircraft commandeered from flying clubs (Cessnas, Piper Cubs and AN-2s, among other things).The Argentines in the Falklands War used commandeered Learjets for recon and as decoys (the Escuadron Fenix).

 

[zoomar]

Since we are talking mainly about terrorist or rebel groups fighting an assymetrical conflict, what about more wide use of unmanned systems by these groups, such as RC planes or balloon-bombs like the Japanese used in WW2? Any truly improvised airforce is pretty much disposable anyway - the planes are likely to be used once or twice at most. before they are eventually destroyed Actually, in many ways it could be argued that Al Queda made very effective use of an improvised airforce against the most powerful military force on the planet.

 

[Michael B]

Since we are talking mainly about terrorist or rebel groups fighting an assymetrical conflict, what about more wide use of unmanned systems by these groups, such as RC planes or balloon-bombs like the Japanese used in WW2?

The Japanese balloon bombs are unlightly to be suitable as they were very ong range and most user sof impoverished air forces are virtually on top of their enemies.