More floating museums

Riain & other Australians,

Isn't there the hulk of a late 1800s turret ship sitting outside an Australian port? The name Cerebus comes to mind... :confused:


Bill
Yep, but it's very much in a 'stablize the remains' state than a 'raise, repair and turn into a museum' state.
 
Riain & Cockroach,

Thanks for the info about Cerebus. Sorry to hear she's in such poor shape though.

The same was true with regards to USS Monitor when she was finally located in the mid-1970s. After conducting a full survey and removing a few artifacts, the Navy monitored her (no pun intended) for the next few decades until it became clear she was deteriorating fast. The wreck is too poor shape to recover in full, so only decision left was to remove certain portions of of it for shoreside restoration and preservation.

I've seen Monitor's turret in a treatment tank at the Mariner's Museum in Newport News, Virginia.

It's rather odd when you think about it, Monitor and Titantic were both located just a scant few decades before erosion and other forces would have left their remains greatly deteriorated or perhaps unrecognizable. Monitor literally rotted away as the USN watched over 15 years and Titanic is in no where the condition in which Ballard found it in 1986.

While Monitor was guarded and even had a marine park established around her, in Titanic's case several treasure/relic dives on the wreck by Russian-minisubs-for-hire (who else? :rolleyes:) are thought to have contributed to her deterioration.


Bill
 
That kind of artifact recovery is generally a no-no on sunken warships. Unlike a merchant vessel or liner, a sunken warship is still considered the property of the country that sent it to sea, hence no recovery of anything from Bismarck, Yorktown, Hood, Yamato, etc. The only exceptions are those expeditions sanctioned by the government in question, and are usually closely supervised by the appropriate naval authorities. Now, if a state no longer exists, the successor state assumes that role: when the French Navy found the wreck of C.S.S. Alabama off Cherbourg, the USN was notified, and since some artifacts from the ship have been raised by the French, the USN has people there to monitor and "advise" when they do so.

Incidentally, the USN has a similar claim to aircraft wrecks, and the Supreme Court has backed them up, so no more recovering downed planes in the Great Lakes and restoring them to flying status (as has happened with a number of F6Fs, TBMs, and even a few Dauntlesses and a Helldiver). If you pull one up, it has to go to a museum approved by the Navy, and any restoration is to static display only-no return to flight, unfortunately.
 
That kind of artifact recovery is generally a no-no on sunken warships.


Matt,

Without a cop stationed over the wreck, who's to know?

Ballard took some precautions to guard Titanic's location due to fears of relic hunting. Of course, once he proved it was possible to find the wreck others followed in his footsteps. The liner and her debris field were picked over for years before several nations signed an understanding to stop and/or monitor the process.

Ballard had flatly stated that, because he'd been burned so badly by what occurred with Titanic, he took even greater pains to leave Bismarck's location secret. The German government was informed of her position and no one else. Of course, as with Titanic, once Ballard found the battleship others knew where to look and there have been additional dives on the wreck.

Unlike a merchant vessel or liner, a sunken warship is still considered the property of the country that sent it to sea, hence no recovery of anything from Bismarck, Yorktown, Hood, Yamato, etc.

Yes, warships are war graves. Titanic is a mass grave too as the hundreds of paired shoes and boots sitting on the seafloor all around her attest. Why civilian graves can be looted when military graves cannot is a question I cannot answer.


Bill
 
Most of the time, warship wrecks are often found with the help of various navies (Yorktown, for example, or the wrecks in Ironbottom Sound), so generally, they're the ones who know. Sometimes the wreck is found via private expeditions, and the navy is notified later-Yamato was found by such a group in 1985 and the JMSDF was notified of the discovery. Incidentally, Bob Ballard has expressed a desire to explore the wreck of the carrier Shinano, sunk on her maiden voyage in Nov '44, but the Japanese Government refused-the wreck is in Japan's EEZ. Finding it isn't the problem-local fishermen know where it is. Getting thru the red tape to dive on her is.

As for why a sunken civilian ship is fair game for relic hunters and a warship is not, a maritime lawyer would know. I prefer to avoid all types of the species of vermin known as lawyers unless absolutely necessary.
 
Most of the time, warship wrecks are often found with the help of various navies (Yorktown, for example, or the wrecks in Ironbottom Sound), so generally, they're the ones who know.


Matt,

Generally, very generally.

Yorktown was located with the help of USN documents, but the USN and IJN records were of little help off Guadacanal. For example, Ballard located a battleship but it still isn't clear whether the wreck is Kirishima or Hiei.

The RN's records concerning Bismarck were nearly as bad.

I prefer to avoid all types of the species of vermin known as lawyers unless absolutely necessary.

You are wise indeed. ;)


Bill
 
The USS Long Beach is still afloat, admittedly just the hull. If you google Puget Sound Naval Shipyard, Bremerton, WA and zoom in in the satellite view you can see the hull. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Long_Beach_(CGN-9) mentions it is waiting for recycling(read scrapping).
docfl
Some of those listed have been sunk (Yamato, Bismarck, Hood, Sydney II, Monitor, Virginia, Nagato), or scrapped (Emden). One that should've been saved was the first nuclear-powered surface warship, U.S.S. Long Beach (CGN-9). If the Nautilus (SSN-571) could be preserved, why not Long Beach? You can bet the latest Big E (CVN-65) will be preserved-one way or another: the Navy won't make the same mistake twice with that name.
 
HMS Vanguard
USS Enterprise
Richelieu
St Columba
INS Delhi
RMS Aquitannia
HMAS Hobart or Australia


However there is the problem of where the money is coming from as only the Enterprise sounds palusible given the number of ships including battleships preserved in the US. The problem with the Enterprise would be it isn't named after a state
 
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