More extant ancient civilizations as modern nations?

But what if the conversion was peacefull and wished? evolution of the culture?


Wished by who? Civilizations are not the same as individuals, and in any event I don't recall Constantine taking a poll on the conversion of the Roman Empire. And even if it is peaceful, the mental software of believing Christians, say, and old-style pre-Christianity Roman pagans were pretty different, leading to serious cultural changes. (A terrible lack of flying phalluses, for one thing. :D )

Are the dravidian muslims less.. tamils, telegus, etc by example?

Obviously a lot of people thought Muslim Punjabis and Bengalis were not the same as the Hindu ones, or we wouldn't have a partitioned India... :) But then there's the officially secular nature of India, and the rise of secularism is another whole kettle of cultural-change fish...


Bruce
 
Wished by who? Civilizations are not the same as individuals, and in any event I don't recall Constantine taking a poll on the conversion of the Roman Empire. And even if it is peaceful, the mental software of believing Christians, say, and old-style pre-Christianity Roman pagans were pretty different, leading to serious cultural changes. (A terrible lack of flying phalluses, for one thing. :D )



Obviously a lot of people thought Muslim Punjabis and Bengalis were not the same as the Hindu ones, or we wouldn't have a partitioned India... :) But then there's the officially secular nature of India, and the rise of secularism is another whole kettle of cultural-change fish...


Bruce

There is reasons why peoples took to christianity, and it was at times not forced at all -a MORE PROGRESSIVE religion on some aspects, perhaps.

What they think and what is, it's different.

Look at Bosniacs, Serbs and Croats... The language is more or less the same by example, inflagrated exagerated differentations based on religions as well.
 
There is reasons why peoples took to christianity, and it was at times not forced at all -a MORE PROGRESSIVE religion on some aspects, perhaps.

Oh indeed, in a number of ways, althought Christianity was always a sharp step away from former custom - "I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law", etc. And I'll argue that the idea of eternal dammnation was a very bad innovation: while the Greeks already had some notions in that respect (Tartarus), you didn't end up there for doctrinal differences.

Bruce
 
Oh indeed, in a number of ways, althought Christianity was always a sharp step away from former custom - "I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law", etc. And I'll argue that the idea of eternal dammnation was a very bad innovation: while the Greeks already had some notions in that respect (Tartarus), you didn't end up there for doctrinal differences.

Bruce

First off the past is a different country, so I don't see why anyone should assume that they think in any way like their great grandparents, let alone their ancestors from thousands of years ago. Someone has even cited Greco-Roman property laws as part of their culture, which is utterly ridiculous. If borders had not changed since 1000BC the world would still be completely socially and economically alien to the people of the time. So if people changed religion peacefully there is still the connection (e.g. the growth of eastern cults like Isis and Mithras in the Roman Republic and Empire).

But having said that I agree with Bruce, the conversion to a religion that so strongly condemns all of your history and heritage up to that point is a cutting off point. The rediscovery or resurgence of these values and cultures (as in the Renaissance) does not make up for a thousand years of dominance by the Catholic Church, which effectively wiped out a link between the culture of the pre-Christian Roman world and the present. This is irrespective of how violent or peacefully the conversion went. The same applies to Islam.

But this also applies the other way, so modern Israel, with the Jews in almost 2000 years in exile, cannot be seen as a continuation of ancient Israel. The influence of European cultures is just too great, so religion alone isn't enough.
 
So one could say that China, Japan, Korea and Thailand are this?

Ethiopia would argue to be it too, at least in part.

If we take "ancient civilisation" to mean earliest known linguistic culture, then might not Scandinavia and Ireland count?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Sweden definitely fits the mold. The Suiones described by Tacitus in the first century CE are likely the same as the Svear who ruled from Uppsala and eventually absorbed the Gotar to form Sweden.

The Danes are pretty old as well, but due to lack of Roman records we don't know whether they existed before the 6th Century. Germany wouldn't count, unless you look to its individual regions - Saxony from the Saxons, Bavaria from the Bavarii, etc.
 
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