More Chinese Immigration to the South

Someone in another thread mentioned that the South tried to attract Chinese immigrants (without much success).

What if the efforts of Southerners were more successful?
 
For some reason, the only thing that comes to mind is the role of the Chinese in railroad construction in California - and not just the Central Pacific.

But it would probably depend on what the Chinese are allowed to do.
 
If Chinese minority become a rung placed on the racial hierarchy between White and Black, it could eventually lead to the development of a more complicated social racial structure akin to the one in Brazil. You might have "White" and "Black" become overwhelmed by "Asian, Brown, Chestnut, Caramel" and whatever other categories people make up for themselves.
 
If Chinese minority become a rung placed on the racial hierarchy between White and Black, it could eventually lead to the development of a more complicated social racial structure akin to the one in Brazil. You might have "White" and "Black" become overwhelmed by "Asian, Brown, Chestnut, Caramel" and whatever other categories people make up for themselves.

Wasn't Lousiana basically like that?
 
Yes, Lousiana was like that, especially before the Civil War. It was so ingrained that some high class brothel madams would falsely claim circa
1900 that they were Octroon (1/8th black), being in reality completely
'white'.

On both sides, whites and blacks, those in the middle were part of the
supply and demand situation, which would fluxuate. Case and point
are Indians in Africa. At first they are welcome as some one who
'looks like us'. After they take over the low end market place, the
riots begin. If numbers were great, say 10% of the South, then we
might see the balance tip very strongly. Local whites would see
their way of life threatened. But selling to Blacks or do things whites
do not normally do, that was welcome. Or to put it in an other way,
when the Japanese American Go for Broke 442 Battalion went to
Mississippi for training in WWII, they were treated cordially. Why?
There were a lot of them, Southern hospitality, and that they were
not Black. The debutantes would, in fact, graciously dance with them.

The situation is complicated, but this is some of the basics as I am
aware of it. The Chinese in the South were never more than .1% or
so, a couple of thousand. They could always be pointed to, saying,
see, that is what you should be doing. With the Chinese exclusion
act soon after Chinese began to bring their families, there would be
no way to have immigration to the South. You did not make as
much money there and no one spoke your language or offered other
support networks.
 
Since one of the big pull factors for Chinese immigrants was railroad construction, something the South didn't have much of OTL (they didn't have standardized railroad systems and not much desire to do it either) we'd need a more industrial-leaning South than what we had, which would change absolutely everything and would require huge butterflies.

I just don't see how it could work in any significant numbers though, unless the Chinese are eager to jump from one quasi-feudal aristocracy in China to another quasi-feudal aristocracy in the South I don't see much reason for them to pick that over the North at that.
 

Keenir

Banned
Someone in another thread mentioned that the South tried to attract Chinese immigrants (without much success).

What if the efforts of Southerners were more successful?

well, besides the Chinese ships that docked in Baltimore, Maryland since the American Revolution...

North Carolina was a big draw for Chinese educations - particularly of the Christian Chinese. (Chiang's wife was raised and educated down here)
 
I had a thought. Pre Civil war, have an expanded Nat Turner or earlier Black rebelion. Needing a solution, immigration from China turned up
on 20 years indentured servitude and a small plot of land afterwards
(not threatening to local lower class whites, but an acre is very
important to a Chinese well being.)

The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Lotus_Rebellion came too
early for most PODs, but 16 million did die in that one and the
emperor was looking for solutions. The one he used was the
carrot and the stick. Offering exile with your clan in the American
south with land after a period might help an initial 30,000
immigration. A long way, but enough to start things out, and
early enough that a compromise for the ending of [legal] slavery
importation seems valid politiking to reintroduce indentured servitude,
which died out soon after the American Revolution.
lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
A systematic program of pacification followed in which the populace was resettled in hundreds of stockaded villages and organized into militia. In its last stage, the Qing suppression policy combined pursuit and extermination of rebel guerrilla bands with a program of amnesty for deserters. Although the rebellion was finally crushed by the Qing government in 1804, it marked a turning point in the history of the Qing dynasty. Qing control weakened and prosperity diminished by the 19th century.
lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
Other rebellions soon after were as follows:
Taiping Rebellion, Dungan revolt, Panthay Rebellion, Nien Rebellion, Dzungars#Conquest by Qing China,

The Taiping Rebellion was the big one, with about 20 million deaths and
a strong Christian element to it. By that time, 1850 - 1864 OTL, the
independent desire for Chinese to go the American South would have
to be firm, or else no soap politically. Even if the South had won an
alternate Civil war, there would be no money for that. Chinese in
particular are eager to save money and spend it to increase the chance
at prosperity.

While at it, in an alternate Civil War, through in a critical help of former
guerrillas in chinese rebellions giving the edge, increasing the respect
and (properly subservient) place of Chinese there. Have the population
at 4 million Chinese throughout, and thought of similar to Jewish, Scotish,
or other well thought of but different people in the south of the time.
They start a bamboo industry (which still has not taken off in the US
South, though a similar climate to China.)

And to combine another thread, large numbers of Muslim immigrants
could arrive at the same time.
 
And to combine another thread, large numbers of Muslim immigrants
could arrive at the same time.


Better yet, free this man circa 1796, send him to china as
a diplomatic embassy, and present the case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_Ibrahim_Ibn_Sori


The advantage is that as he a Muslim/former Muslim, the White Lotus
Society Buddhist focus would be impressed that a minority could
be accepted, and since the other choice was to die, it was worth
the risk for at least a small number of the guerrillas. After all,
the Emperor was simply trying divide and conquer then, while
looking under seat cushions for spare change.

Abdulrahman goes back to Guinea and take a strong place in
his fathers army as a modernizer, til dying 5 years later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fula_jihads

Why him? Because he would probably have no problems of squirming
on his belly, as foreign dignataries had to do in 1800 with the
Emperor, and he was a Prince. That would make a big impact, and
probably seal the deal. Certainly it would be much more interesting
than our timeline.
 
Well I guess you'd get a decent Chinese takeaway in Cork.. oh wait you mean the US South :D

Would you? Afterall American chinese is about adopting Chinese techniques for American ingredients and palates. Although I'd imagine that you might see Congee's made out of grits, the primacy of American rice, greens collard in woks, and Pork served in countless ways to say nothing about seafood.
 
And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_Tall takes over the
task a few years later, setting up a United States of Fulani Africa
(USFA) with western arms and methods, including rough
railroads to augument the so-so navigatitable Niger River.
Health improvements are made as well as agricultural practices
for steppe and marginal lands. It stretches from sea to shining
sea (Red Sea to the Atlantic to the Gulf of Guinea to the Mediterranean).

Down and out railroaders are brought to the continent from the US,
with the stipulation that if they succeed in profitability there, they
will buy help the bankrupt back into the American scene.

A new mega nation is born. This is getting fun.
 
Go To The Sahara, Young Man

I know it is a stretch, but this is reeaally enjoyable.

Originally the meaning was Chinese Muslims, but a few
could filter back the other way. The New Orleans
type of antebellum multi layered society spreads.
Some Fulani or conquered tribes, much like this
princess: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Forbes_Bonetta
are allowed in some cases to go to America.

In 1798, George Washington frees his slaves and
indentures a hundred Hui Muslims:

In 1785, George Washington stated a willingness to hire "Mahometans," as well as people of any nation or religion, to work on his private estate at Mount Vernon if they were "good workmen." It was a rhetorical statement, as he hired no such people.[25]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States#Religious_freedom


There is no way, knowing what we know now, that pre petroleum the
Sahara, Sub Sahara, and some to the south could make a very wealthy
state. But there were mounds of opportunity if simple techniques were
followed, and many groups, Islamic and African Native Religions, could
have made it work. Lebanese and Turkish immigrant traders would help.
Religious tollerance is based to some degree on the American model.
A strong succession regulation of state (constitutional monarchy to
some degree) and even a patent office are reforms that come and are
rigorously enforced.
 
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