More Axis Countries?

[Neirdak]

Axis Himalayas would be a great ASB timeline.

They could decide to become part of the Axis after being visited by the Deutschen Tibet-Expedition Ernst Schäfer. Strangely, they could be able to convince Reting Rinpoche to join the Axis, an alliance which isn't russian, chinese nor british. It creates an Axis Tibet in 1939, without the crazy racial ideas of course. Nationalist Chinese won't be shocked as they were still friends with Germany. For fun, the expedition could convert the Maharaja of Sikkim, Tashi Namgyal, as they met him in OTL.

The same year, the Japanese intelligence expedition to Tibet by Jinzō Nomoto reached Lhassa in OTL. This fellow could introduce the locals to the idea of Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, as a way to fight white imperialism. Asians must unite.

Taking this message literally, Tibet and Sikkim quickly sign an alliance with Tribhuwan Bir Bikram Shah (Nepal) and Jigme Wangchuck (Bhutan). This alliance, called Himalayan Co-Prosperity Sphere, is meant to deter the influences of Great Britain, Russia and China.

Officers of the Himalayan Co-Prosperity Sphere are sent to Germany and Japan to learn basic military tactics. They come back with knowledge, weapons and blueprints. Later, the Allies and the Chinese forget about them and then don't invite them to sign any peace treaties or armistices in 1945. The leaders of Himalayan Co-Prosperity Sphere decide to play "neutral" and slowly begin to smuggle or buy used equipment from former belligerants. Those Kingdoms become more and more isolationnist ... until ... the invasion of Tibet by Chinese communist forces.

In May 1950, fifty members of the People's liberation Army unsuccessfully tried to capture the city of Dengo. This city was situated ninety miles from Qamdo (the seat of military authority of Tibet and was a strategic access to Jiegu. Those troops were quickly routed by a troop of 20 frontier guards. Those militiamen, far from being armed with primitive weapons or unorganized, used modern weapons and seemed to be well trained.

It was just the beginning ...

 

[Ravenclaw]

I think the Swiss had plans to cockblock Germany if they tried annexing Liechtenstein.

I'm imagining this as a Hetalia episode.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

I remember on an ASB trend a manga about a japanese self defence navy ultramodern ship (smaller one, with torpedos and all, forgot the terminology), who get send in time back in WWII. In this it shows Bose(?) radical anti british 'army' sent in train toward India...

So, back on topic... it would need serious backing and more manpower... Not sure how this could be done, by who. Japan was overextanded in Burma.
A part of this would be smashing british navy and planes in the local bases as Chitagong.

 

[savelijah]

I remember on an ASB trend a manga about a japanese self defence navy ultramodern ship (smaller one, with torpedos and all, forgot the terminology), who get send in time back in WWII. In this it shows Bose(?) radical anti british 'army' sent in train toward India...

So, back on topic... it would need serious backing and more manpower... Not sure how this could be done, by who. Japan was overextanded in Burma.
A part of this would be smashing british navy and planes in the local bases as Chitagong.

I think you got the wrong thread

 

[The Ubbergeek]

I think you got the wrong thread

Somewhat a tangency yes, an infuriating habit of mine I admit.

Albeit I see an Axis India hard to.. 'implement'.

 

[usertron2020]

Bulgaria theoretically can have been pulled into the Axis even more than it was with proper PODs. Perhaps pre-war Soviet aggression or something. Yugoslavia, with more proper political maneuvering and "luck" could have been also (perhaps allying with Germany to act as a counterweight to Italy).

Bulgaria was pushing it just to be in the Axis, considering its long history with Russia. The only way it could get "more into the Axis" would be to DoW the USSR, which would have torn the country apart almost as badly as what happened to Yugoslavia.

As to Yugoslavia, you'd need a POD where Serbia wasn't a member...?

I'm imagining this as a Hetalia episode.

Oddly enough, there's a whole discussion thread around here somewhere over what the Swiss would/could really do in the face of Germany invading Leichtenstein.

 

[Ravenclaw]

Oddly enough, there's a whole discussion thread around here somewhere over what the Swiss would/could really do in the face of Germany invading Leichtenstein.

Well, it was the word "cockblock" that pushed it into Hetalia territory.
Germany: Wanna annex, Lichtenstein?
Lichtenstein: H-help me, senpai!
Switzerland: *casually cockblocks Germany*

 

[Prince of darkness]

china could if it not japan who joined

It'd have to be a heck of a lot more militant and rebellious, OTL they provided the largest volunteer army in the history of the world for the British Empire.

well they hope for dominion status or at least semi automonous colony... thats why after WWII
revolution is live

They could decide to become part of the Axis after being visited by the Deutschen Tibet-Expedition Ernst Schäfer. Strangely, they could be able to convince Reting Rinpoche to join the Axis, an alliance which isn't russian, chinese nor british. It creates an Axis Tibet in 1939, without the crazy racial ideas of course. Nationalist Chinese won't be shocked as they were still friends with Germany. For fun, the expedition could convert the Maharaja of Sikkim, Tashi Namgyal, as they met him in OTL.

The same year, the Japanese intelligence expedition to Tibet by Jinzō Nomoto reached Lhassa in OTL. This fellow could introduce the locals to the idea of Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, as a way to fight white imperialism. Asians must unite.

Taking this message literally, Tibet and Sikkim quickly sign an alliance with Tribhuwan Bir Bikram Shah (Nepal) and Jigme Wangchuck (Bhutan). This alliance, called Himalayan Co-Prosperity Sphere, is meant to deter the influences of Great Britain, Russia and China.

Officers of the Himalayan Co-Prosperity Sphere are sent to Germany and Japan to learn basic military tactics. They come back with knowledge, weapons and blueprints. Later, the Allies and the Chinese forget about them and then don't invite them to sign any peace treaties or armistices in 1945. The leaders of Himalayan Co-Prosperity Sphere decide to play "neutral" and slowly begin to smuggle or buy used equipment from former belligerants. Those Kingdoms become more and more isolationnist ... until ... the invasion of Tibet by Chinese communist forces.

In May 1950, fifty members of the People's liberation Army unsuccessfully tried to capture the city of Dengo. This city was situated ninety miles from Qamdo (the seat of military authority of Tibet and was a strategic access to Jiegu. Those troops were quickly routed by a troop of 20 frontier guards. Those militiamen, far from being armed with primitive weapons or unorganized, used modern weapons and seemed to be well trained.

It was just the beginning ...

tibeto defeat sino

Well, it was the word "cockblock" that pushed it into Hetalia territory.
Germany: Wanna annex, Lichtenstein?
Lichtenstein: H-help me, senpai!
Switzerland: *casually cockblocks Germany*

isnt it suposed to be brother?

 

[thaddeus]

What countries could have joined the axis that didn't OTL?
(if any)

USSR would create strongest (barely) plausible Axis. supplying oil to both Germany and Japan. open whole front against Great Britain through invasion of Iran and Iraq.

OR

Spain before end of 1940, just to allow LW units and u-boats into Morocco and Western Sahara. big political victory to seize Gibraltar and Malta at that point, a motive not to be discounted.

 

[usertron2020]

USSR would create strongest (barely) plausible Axis. [1] supplying oil to both Germany and Japan. open whole front against Great Britain through invasion of Iran and Iraq.

OR

Spain before end of 1940, just to allow LW units and u-boats into Morocco and Western Sahara. big political victory to seize Gibraltar and Malta at that point, a motive not to be discounted.[2]

1] That would require Germany to not be Nazi Germany

2] That would require giveaways to Franco that would politically destroy Vichy France. Why did they surrender if Hitler is going to hand over the jewels of the French Empire to his cronies (or himself) anyway...? Also, Benny the Moose's political interests (desired imperial vittles) strongly overlapped those of Franco's, and Hitler was not about to stiff the stalwart Il Duce in favor of the johnny-come-lately Franco.

 

[Shiva]

If the Axis can get Argentina and maybe one other SA country there could have been a credible South American Theater in WWII.

 

[thaddeus]

USSR would create strongest (barely) plausible Axis. supplying oil to both Germany and Japan. open whole front against Great Britain through invasion of Iran and Iraq.

OR

Spain before end of 1940, just to allow LW units and u-boats into Morocco and Western Sahara. big political victory to seize Gibraltar and Malta at that point, a motive not to be discounted.

1] That would require Germany to not be Nazi Germany

2] That would require giveaways to Franco that would politically destroy Vichy France. Why did they surrender if Hitler is going to hand over the jewels of the French Empire to his cronies (or himself) anyway...? Also, Benny the Moose's political interests (desired imperial vittles) strongly overlapped those of Franco's, and Hitler was not about to stiff the stalwart Il Duce in favor of the johnny-come-lately Franco.

1. any agreement to allow an Axis USSR would be just like the OTL M-R Pact, a cynical ploy. might have worked for a time, especially if Germany and Japan were more closely aligned (or at least presented a unified strategy for relations with Soviets)

a POD? perhaps the Germans do not sign any pact with the Soviets while they are having a shooting war with Japan? http://thediplomat.com/2012/08/the-forgotten-soviet-japanese-war-of-1939/

2. Hitler tried to balance the Vichy regime and Spain and ended up with neither. wait two years and have to stage Case Anton. just pay the price for a deal with Spain.

 

[thaddeus]

If the Axis can get Argentina and maybe one other SA country there could have been a credible South American Theater in WWII.

Chile would be plausible except for the fact their relations with Argentina have always been poor.

my scenario would be Brazil is a little less friendly a little earlier and more/most of German (and Italian) emigre population moves to Argentina, Chile, and Paraguay.

that could influence the governments to offer clandestine support such as ports for auxiliary cruisers and supplies for u-boats. also restrain Chile and Argentina from being played against one another.

probably works as well or better than any joining Axis and becoming invasion target.

 

[juanml82]

The Argentine government was considering joining the war after the sinking of the Graf Spee, but American and British diplomacy prevented it on purpose.


The Argentine government trying to join the Allies.

 

[savelijah]

bump.....!

 

[La Rouge Beret]

Could the addition of more Axis countries have improved the performance of the Axis during WW 2? Ideally you would want a country that borders the main Axis powers in Europe, but the Germans conquered all of europe...

So would a greater number of countries that are neutral help the Axis during WWII?

 

[Saphroneth]

So would a greater number of countries that are neutral help the Axis during WWII?

It's kind of hard to come up with a good country to have neutral. The Germans either declared war on or allied with most of them - only Britain and France really declared on the Axis rather than the other way around.
That being said, if Italy concentrates entirely on fighting Britain, it might at least mean less partisans in Yugoslavia and Greece for them. But that might in and of itself ruin Mussolini's standing earlier...?

 

[juanml82]

Could the addition of more Axis countries have improved the performance of the Axis during WW 2? Ideally you would want a country that borders the main Axis powers in Europe, but the Germans conquered all of europe...

So would a greater number of countries that are neutral help the Axis during WWII?

Well, the obvious answer is the USSR after the British bomb the Baku oilfields in retaliation for the Winter War.
Besides that:
Norway and Sweden, after the UK really blunders and openly attack them before the Germans invade. The Germans assist them in repelling the rather improvised British attack and either, or both, countries end up in the Axis.
Iraq joins Vichy occupied Syria and they succeed in holding back the British. Hard to see how they'd be able to pull it through, though.
Germany chooses China over Japan in the '30s. They end up in the same diplomatic side as the USA during the second Sino-Japanese war. It's hard to see how China could contribute to the Axis, though, since they were fighting the Japanese.

 

[TheBrunswickian]

Spain is always a possibility, but of course Franco had to deal with the pro-Allies and pro-Axis camps in his government.

USSR would never join the Axis as Hitler hated Bolshevism just as much as he hated the Jews.

Turkey is always brought up, and it is plausible; Turkey in the Middle Eastern Campaign would have helped Rommel by forcing the British to fight two fronts, and with Turkish forces threatening the Caucasus, Germany could have put more troops to attack Russia.

Argentina is a possibility because of their pro-German sentiment and their rivalry with Britain over the Falklands.

Chile would never have joined the Axis as they produced most of Britain's food between 1940-42.

Sweden would have tried to remain neutral, but pressure from Germany plus the threat of invasion could have forced Stockholm to give in.

If the Yugoslavian coup d'état had failed, then Yugoslavia may have remained part of the tripartite pact, thus joining the Axis.

With some diplomatic work, Hitler could have managed to bring Iran on side, thus threatening India.

Andorra wouldn't have joined because one of their Co-Princes was Marshal Petain.

Hitler's personal admiration for Islam could have encouraged patriot rebellions in Iraq, Syria and Palestine.

 

[edvardas]

yugoslavia

They were a friendly neutral before the coup. Without the coup, Greece could be contained, and Germany wo8ld not have to waste time invading Yugoslavia before Barbarossa. Staying as a friendly neutral would hvve been as good as as an ally.