Moonlight in a Jar: An Al-Andalus Timeline

then how can a blanket ban exist on printing Qurans? How can Ibn al-Jazuli be forbidden from using the technology, a product of logic and reason, in order to print copies of the Quran? Wouldn't this raise some questions from some theologians or philosophers?
The easy answer...he didn't consider the priting techology good enough for something as noble as the Quran,when printing tech evolved it would have been apporved...Arab is a hard language fellas
 
This update is really interesting because it poses an interesting conundrum that is going to exist. If logic and faith do not contradict each other according to al-Layth, who seems to be an influential thinker at least in Andalusi society, then how can a blanket ban exist on printing Qurans? How can Ibn al-Jazuli be forbidden from using the technology, a product of logic and reason, in order to print copies of the Quran? Wouldn't this raise some questions from some theologians or philosophers?
Not all religious thinking is uniform and not all logic is necessarily technocratic. Deductive reasoning is not, in certain currents of Western Islamic thinking, antithetical to Islam - but not every cleric agrees. Further, there is another logical element at play here: The limits of the technology at the time. Arabic script plays much less easily with early printing press than Latin characters do, and using movable type to reproduce the Quran would require compromises to the quality of what is actually printed. That's seen as potentially altering the meaning of the Quran.

Basically the technology is not there yet to print a Quran that feels faithful.
 
What does the Alcazar's currently resemble? Have they adopted a more Baroque image, have they become more intricate at this time period TTL (given that the much smaller Granada Emirate increased in sophistation otl, as the islamic art there was entering a "strictly european stage" was loosing byzantine influence, Granada Emirate architecture took Baroque elements) given the time and further global interactions?
In terms of Masjid, how has the Al Andulsian style evolved in ttl? Given that like OTL and with the changing times (Byzantine-ummayed influence wearing) I think a unique Al Andulsian style can form.
What about Islamic art; numerous dynasties have often broken the painting taboo, and Al Andulas will probably have both Islamic and Western European influences.
How will the renaissance, if it occurs, effect the philosophy in the Al Andulas Empire (used that term, it seems to be heading in the direction of being an "Empire.")
What is the attire, how much of the influence there is North African, how much is European?

Sorry for this probably over specific question, what role does the Islamic Imam's play, or rather Religion, say, comparative to both OTL spain and general western europe TTL? In terms of headgear, due they use a North African influenced Kufi cap, or a more gulf influenced Taqiyah? (I am asking this because sects generally wear different attire, Sufi for example generally use a white turban, or green, or one of a different color, but generally a Turban, Shafi/Maliki often the Kufi cap, both Sufi and Maliki/Shafi wear a heavier gown, , Salafi the plane generally domed Taqiyah cap with a Keffiyeh over, with a light gown that generally strictly covers ankles)

More generally, what sect is dominant?

How are women doing? I know in morroco, Fatima al Fihri opened a university (qarawiyyin) in 859 otl, and Moorish islam (generally) seems more progressive than European Christianity, but I am still curious.

Actually while I am at it, how is higher education and universities in Al Andulas?
 
Can i just post one random thought theres been no major schism in Catholicism since lateren wars, good on them they kept a good unity even though the germans are being german and more heresies all over the place.
 
Can i just post one random thought theres been no major schism in Catholicism since lateren wars, good on them they kept a good unity even though the germans are being german and more heresies all over the place.
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While the Asmarids exported religious heterodoxy, among the Christian kingdoms, it lingered closer to home - and nowhere more closely than in the north of Iberia.

The Tellian movement, rooted in Tyrol, had been driven out decades prior through the efforts of the Church, with several key Tellian leaders executed as heretics and communities uprooted. Many of these Tellians took to the road as itinerant preachers, spreading across Europe and carrying the remnants of their ideology with them. There was no particular unity to these post-Tellian communities - they sprung up wherever they sprang up, with the ideas typically traveling along trade routes informally.

Tellian thought is likely to have been the source of several schismatic movements in Europe in the 14th and 15th centuries. In the 14th century, a community known as the Helpfridites could be found in rural areas around Breisgau, adhering to an ethos of sinlessness and ecclesiastical poverty clearly derived from the Tellians. German chronicles describe these faithful as "Tirolen" - "Tyroleans" - and suggest they were tolerated only grudgingly.

Also described as "Tyroleans" are a more prominent group in northern Iberia known as the Good Men of Melide, though they're more commonly known as the Anicetians, after their founder, Anizetto das Colinas - or Anicette, as he was known in French. Anizetto, a Hispanicized Norman, was active in the late 1200s, apparently adopting his view on Christianity independently. Accounts from surviving early Anicetian texts report that he settled in the town of Melide in Santiago, where he surrendered all his earthly belongings and lived the life of an impoverished preacher. Despite opposition from the Church, Anizetto became something of a local saint. By all accounts, the people of Melide came to believe he was the holiest man alive, and it's reported that he cured a child of the plague simply by touching him.

By the time of Anizetto's death, he had amassed a significant lay following among the poor and common classes, spreading to smaller towns in the area and even building small churches. More critically, however, some of his followers took to traveling along the Way of Saint James, offering their services as healers, map-sellers, guides or even providers of rest for pilgrims. This handful of people had access to an enormous flow of pilgrims through Santiago - pilgrims who would sometimes ask them about their faith.

The Church itself viewed Anizetto and his movement as a nuisance. In 1322, Anizetto himself was arrested and thrown in jail by the ecclesiastical authorities. He died in prison, but his movement long survived him. By the time of the War of Navarrese Succession, it was prevalent in the western Cantabrian Mountains and rural Gallaecia, and Tellian minorities lived in the poorer parts of cities like Santiago and Astorga, where they were generally treated as undesirables. They were most numerous in the city of Lugo, where they came to enjoy the quiet protection of the city's sympathetic rulers.

Anicetian doctrine is well-documented and shares clear commonalities with the Tellians, but also appears to draw inspiration from very orthodox forms of Islam - an interesting example of cultural cross-pollination in Iberia. The Anicetians believed that man was created from sin and has an evil nature, and that the Old Testament God was in fact the creator of sin. They took a dualistic view of God in which the Old Testament God was the "Evil God" and the New Testament God was his good counterpart. By the Anicetian telling, Jesus was the Son of God, but he was fully human, but achieved salvation through his sinlessness and purity of heart, a process through which he attained divinity - an essentially adoptionist viewpoint.

Purity and sinlessness were core to Anicetian life. They maintained an ethos of simplicity, cleanliness and austerity. In their view of the world, God punished men for their sins, and the only way to avoid punishment was to live a simple, pure and sinless life. Part of this purity involved regular washing of the body and, for women, covering of the head to partially conceal the hair. Keeping the hair long - and for men, the beard - was seen as a mark of purity. Notably, Anicetian theology had no concept of indulgences or priestly forgiveness of sin, viewing absolution as a lifelong process of maintaining purity as best as possible, with only God capable of passing final judgment. It also had no bar against women becoming pure: The belief system was highly accessible to especially lower-class women, and many early Anicetians were peasant mothers who passed their beliefs on to their children. Women and men both served as spiritual leaders, often so chosen for their wisdom and age.

Most notable, however, was the Anicetian view on church authority: They viewed the Catholic Church itself as having lost its legitimacy by concerning itself more with wealth and the affairs of kings than with the salvation of humanity, and they viewed the Papacy as a corrupted institution and the actual spiritual leadership of Christendom as essentially vacant. The Anicetians viewed religious authority as residing with the commons, exercised in the form of ecumenical councils. Anicetian communities operated as early forms of council ecumenism, in which religious leaders and respected elders consulted together to make decisions and in which there was no figure analogous to the Pope.

It was this view of the Church that saw Anicetian beliefs explode in Iberia following the War of Navarrese Succession. The war had been a disaster for the Kingdom of Santiago, their kingdom soundly defeated by the southern Muslims. By the Anicetian telling, the defeat of Santiago - and the failure of the long-predicted Reconquista - was a consequence of Christianity's moral decline and the Church's descent into corruption. They viewed their Muslim neighbours as spiritually and morally superior to the corrupt institution of the Church, with a moral clarity that gave them an advantage over their corrupted northern neighbours. Many mainline Catholics, struggling with feelings of abandonment by France and the Church, found the Anicetians' philosophies to ring true.

As Santiago splintered into warring counties and duchies, the Anicetians found themselves with enormous influence over one of the most powerful lords. The Normando division of the former kingdoms of Gallaecia and Leon had carved out a number of duchies, and one of the most central was that of Felipe, Duke of Sanabria. While his seat lay at a Normando fort in Ribadelago on the coast of Lake Sanabria, his dominion extended to several key cities, encompassing Astorga, Ponferrada, Lugo and Braganza. Felipe himself was of Normando extraction, but his mother came from the Santiagonian royal family, giving him a distant claim to the throne.

Felipe's sympathies for the Anicetians were quiet, but evident. He made no moves to persecute them, permitting them to build their own churches in cities under his control, and he allowed them to serve as members of his council and appear at his court. They formed a key base of support for the ambitious duke's efforts to press his claim against the usurper king Bermudo III, who held Santiago, Ourense, Pontevedra and Corunna but had few allies east of that.

As the Anicetians grew in influence in Sanabria, more and more commoners took interest. The concept of conciliarism - the derivation of religious authority not from the church, but from councils of learned men - continued to spread to Europe as it gained exposure through meetings between Anicetians and pilgrims on the Way of Saint James. From the spread of Tellianism to Iberia, the seeds of pushback against Papal supremacy began to blossom.

I think we're pretty close to a major schism (or schisms) as hinted with this update.
 
Can i just post one random thought theres been no major schism in Catholicism since lateren wars, good on them they kept a good unity even though the germans are being german and more heresies all over the place.
Little do you know that a new Pope is on the way.

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I hope you're ready for Pope Kittius I to start raising sees to meowtropolitan status.

What does the Alcazar's currently resemble? Have they adopted a more Baroque image, have they become more intricate at this time period TTL (given that the much smaller Granada Emirate increased in sophistation otl, as the islamic art there was entering a "strictly european stage" was loosing byzantine influence, Granada Emirate architecture took Baroque elements) given the time and further global interactions?
In terms of Masjid, how has the Al Andulsian style evolved in ttl? Given that like OTL and with the changing times (Byzantine-ummayed influence wearing) I think a unique Al Andulsian style can form.
The Blue Period has well and truly past, but left a legacy of fancy zellige tile as a core part of Andalusian architecture.

The increase in wealth over the last century or so has led to an upsurge in building, but not every builder is a connoisseur and not every architect used is an elite architect - the talent pool is spread a bit thinner. A lot of new-model alcazars built after the 1330s are blockier and more externally forbidding, and they'll sometimes have big fortifications inspired by interactions with the Normandos, who built a lot of imposing forts when they took over Leon way back when. The concept of the Norman arch has also been integrated into Andalusian architecture - basically the idea of a huge imposing arch as an entrance. In a 1400s-era mosque, the mihrab may also feature a big layered arch that feels a bit Norman in its structure. Arabesques in relief have also surged back into fashion. The style tends to be less colourful, but you'll find arches and other features inlaid with elaborate arabesques that incorporate a lot of calligraphy.

What really sets Andalusian architecture apart is that there tend to be water motifs in a lot of places. They love blue and white accents, though they're subtler today than they were in the Blue Period, and arabesques will frequently depict shapes suggestive of waves.

One more thing the Andalusians have incorporated into their architecture is the use of ghats along waterways, which they've seen in India. In Isbili, there's a new public garden built along the Guadalquivir which features a series of steps down to the water's edge, surrounded by neatly-organized foliage and water features.

What about Islamic art; numerous dynasties have often broken the painting taboo, and Al Andulas will probably have both Islamic and Western European influences.
You'll often see humans depicted in smaller tablet art or art intended to be displayed privately. One thing that's come into fashion is the depiction of fantastic creatures. This was happening somewhat OTL, but it's become quietly accepted (save in arch-conservative circles) that depicting fanciful beasts in submissive positions is not actually idolatry. As such, rather than lion statues, you'll see depictions of griffons, dragons, sea serpents and falcon-headed gargoyles. The roc is also sometimes depicted. They're usually depicted with heads bowed to make clear that they're submissive to God. It's also tradition to engrave a crescent feature across the neck to symbolize a cut throat.

Official art tends to rely on the religiously-approved geometric features and calligraphy.

How will the renaissance, if it occurs, effect the philosophy in the Al Andulas Empire (used that term, it seems to be heading in the direction of being an "Empire.")
What is the attire, how much of the influence there is North African, how much is European?
Attire's something of a mix. Men will wear florid colours with elaborate patterns, as will women, for whom silk is reserved. The current style for men is to take a cue from the Prophet. The most stylish and chic of Andalusi men wear their hair to about the shoulders, ideally wavy. The moustache is also permitted in Andalusia. Women are supposed to cover the hair, but they were doing a half-assed job of it years ago and the same still holds true today, and some women of status just don't do it - though they're considered somewhat scandalous for going without.

A lot of Renaissance ideas are already percolating. So much of what constituted the Renaissance was based on Christian discovery and rediscovery of Islamic and Greek thought, and those are already accessible to Western Muslim powers. The rule of Abd ar-Rahman has kickstarted another wave of thought and invention, as you saw in the last update.

More generally, what sect is dominant?
So in terms of madhhab of choice, most Muslims west of Egypt, in the Dahab region and south of the Sahara are Maliki, with a minority Zahiri population who tend to adhere to much more rigorist traditions (they tend to stand out because the women always cover the hair fully). Sufis tend to be more decentralized, and it's hard to actually pick out a dominant strain of thought right now.
 
Got a question about dogs again i know this tl undeniably pro cat and not a welcoming place for mans best friend (me doing bad joke pls don't take too serious as me complaining about dogs and cats), but i saw a video of use of dogs removing rat infestations, it looked effective, if the link between disease and rats be made will dogs become more common as a method of purging the heretical rats in the cities and in everywhere in general?
 
Speaking of culture, are the Bataids basically just like extra Hellenized Ottomans in their culture? Hagia Sophia stays a mosque, except now all grand mosques are built in the image of the Hagia Sophia.
 
I also wonder if there’s going to be an outgrowth of TTL version of Protestant branches such as Luther, Zwingli, etc with the proliferation of the printing press and ease of duplication
 
Is it capitalism time yet? How is banking? Is a framework for funding projects through pooled capital appearing? Are the cross Atlantic and Eastern trips funded by private interests yet?

I imagine the combination of empowered merchant class and wealthier emirs is going to get messy soon for our hajibs.
 
Is it capitalism time yet? How is banking? Is a framework for funding projects through pooled capital appearing? Are the cross Atlantic and Eastern trips funded by private interests yet?

I imagine the combination of empowered merchant class and wealthier emirs is going to get messy soon for our hajibs.
With respect to the merchants and emirs: Stay tuned.

Banking has been invented... in Tekrur, of all places. Remember those Maghrebi Jews who migrated to the Niger after the Al-Mutahirin expelled them from Algiers? Their descendants are the banking class in Tekrur and Labu now. Merchants are beginning to get rich enough to send their own missions, too.
 
I just wanted to say I've wasted a lot of time reading this TL instead of studying for grad school like I should have last semester and its the only reason I've made an account on here! looking forward to seeing how this TL further develops!!
 
I just wanted to say I've wasted a lot of time reading this TL instead of studying for grad school like I should have last semester and its the only reason I've made an account on here! looking forward to seeing how this TL further develops!!
As someone who got through university mainly by playing video games, thanks for reading. :D
 
Why? as long they pay Zakat and do sadaqa what is the issue?

I meant politically. The rising bourgeoisie tend to have demands. And local lords always want more autonomy.

With respect to the merchants and emirs: Stay tuned.

Banking has been invented... in Tekrur, of all places. Remember those Maghrebi Jews who migrated to the Niger after the Al-Mutahirin expelled them from Algiers? Their descendants are the banking class in Tekrur and Labu now. Merchants are beginning to get rich enough to send their own missions, too.

Capital pooling for projects has been observed pretty early OTL, I remember stuff about French local bourgeois building mills under primitive companies in the 13th century.

But on the other hand, the state probably has a more robust bureaucracy and development policy so that may not be needed. I could see the hajib taking on banking with the state finances and bankrolling projects, making capital pooling less critical to kickstarting private endeavours.
 
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