Mongols settle in Pannonia?

so for a timeline I'm writing, the Magyars don't settle in OTL Hungary, but stay in Etelkuzu / west Ukraine (has there been a timeline about that already?)

so as a result, Pannonia is still much less populated, like it was before the Hungarians arrived. it will probably remain like that until the 13th century when the Mongols arrive. so would it be possible, do you think, for a significant number of Mongols to settle in the relatively empty Pannonia during their conquest? the Plain did seem to be like a magnet for nomadic peoples (Huns, Slavs, Avars, OTL Magyars, etc) so would this be at all possible?
 
It might be possible, but TTL's Pannonian Mongols will become just as round-eyed as OTL Magyars are. OTL Hungary lost population quite often in massive scales and just became resettled after by neighboring Slavs and other Indo-Europeans.
 
no Magyars, that would be very interesting. and countless side effects. (sorry if this goes somewhat off topic)... for one, the Mithraic cult practiced by much of the Carpathian peoples pre-Magyar will survive for longer.also, without the Magyar threat, the Western Europeans will not become so obsessed with "Crenellation" or castellation, the proccess of building many castles all around the countriside.so no Magyars might actually mean a further Mongol conquest into Europe itself, because there are many fewer massive castles to act as a deterent to the Mongol armies. and there will probably be an earlier Romanian state (old roman customs and society not destroyed by centuries of nomad domination), and larger Romance-speaking population in Pannonia. maybe even an Avar revival, but that is unrelated and unlikely.*gets on topic*I think there is a pretty good possibility that the Mongols would settle in the pretty empty Pannonian Plain (probably completely empty, or close to it, after their conquests), but vanilla Mongols would be assimilated after some time without a binding factor like an established religion. so maybe if those mongols are buddhist or Nestorian they might last longer, perhaps to the present day. kind of like earlier Kalmyks, but in Europe.I hope this long post didn't kill your thread, it's a very interesting idea.
 
...but if the Maygars never settle in the Panonnian Plain, then wouldn't the Cumans or another Turkish people settle here?

And aside from that; the nomadic population of the Golden Horde consisted almost entirely of Qipchak/Cumans, and very few Mongols (only a few thousands - and definitely not more than twenty thousand, including women and children) settled in the Golden Horde Khanate.

That said, it would still be possible to get a significant Mongol population in the Panonnian Plain.

Just make sure that a fairly large Mongol tribe (or perhaps several tribes) has/have a good reason to migrate westwards (like a civil war, supporting the losing side or person in a civil war, etc.), and that no strong Mongol or other polity stands between them and the Panonnian Plain.


...and if you need a decent list of Mongol and other tribes during the time of Genghis Khan; there's such a list on Wikipedia.

And even though Wikipedia is often unreliable, this certainly is worth taking a look at.
 
so for a timeline I'm writing, the Magyars don't settle in OTL Hungary, but stay in Etelkuzu / west Ukraine (has there been a timeline about that already?)

so as a result, Pannonia is still much less populated, like it was before the Hungarians arrived. it will probably remain like that until the 13th century when the Mongols arrive. so would it be possible, do you think, for a significant number of Mongols to settle in the relatively empty Pannonia during their conquest? the Plain did seem to be like a magnet for nomadic peoples (Huns, Slavs, Avars, OTL Magyars, etc) so would this be at all possible?

Bright day
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Mongol incursion into Hungary a punitive raid for bad Hungarian diplomacy?

Also, descendants of original Hungarians do not really make up populations of later Hungary. It was not populated any less than Poland and already had a number of native principalities.
 
Bright day
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Mongol incursion into Hungary a punitive raid for bad Hungarian diplomacy?

Indeed it was - the Hungarian king had allowed Cumans who were fleeing from the Mongols to settle in his lands, even though the Mongols demanded that

Also, descendants of original Hungarians do not really make up populations of later Hungary. It was not populated any less than Poland and already had a number of native principalities.

This is true.

However, the Panonnian Plain was still exceptionally suitable terrain for a horde of horse nomads - especially by European standards.

...and if the Hungarians could assimilate most of the pre-Hungarian population of the Panonnian Plain, then it shouldn't be too hard to let a Mongol horde do the same.
 
I think there is a pretty good possibility that the Mongols would settle in the pretty empty Pannonian Plain (probably completely empty, or close to it, after their conquests), but vanilla Mongols would be assimilated after some time without a binding factor like an established religion.

I doubt it - the OTL Hungarians were pagans when they invaded the Panonnian Plain, and yet they were never assimilated, even though they converted to Christianity.

As long as the numbers of Mongols are large enough, they won't be assimilated.
 
and if the Hungarians could assimilate most of the pre-Hungarian population of the Panonnian Plain, then it shouldn't be too hard to let a Mongol horde do the same.

Five hundred years later? Literate christian society with history as a country/ies?
 
Bright day
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Mongol incursion into Hungary a punitive raid for bad Hungarian diplomacy?

Also, descendants of original Hungarians do not really make up populations of later Hungary. It was not populated any less than Poland and already had a number of native principalities.

it was in response to the Cumans fleeing the Mongols, who were angry that the Hungarians gave refuge too.

@Some King of Chimp: I was thinking about that too, the lack of crenellation would leave Europe wide open... didn't Genghis Khan's successor have ambitions of Mongol armies conquering up to the Atlantic?


I doubt it - the OTL Hungarians were pagans when they invaded the Panonnian Plain, and yet they were never assimilated, even though they converted to Christianity.

As long as the numbers of Mongols are large enough, they won't be assimilated.

but they were Christian less than a century after they arrived, I don't know if the Mongols would convert that easily.
 
Top