Mongolia stays as a part of China

Let's assume that Baron Ungern dies at some point of his attack to Mongolia in 1920. His army scatters and remaining forces are easily defeated by Chinese forces occupying the area. Without Ungern the Soviets lose one of the biggest reasons why they IOTL took Mongolia and the area stays under Chinese control.

What sort of effects this would have?
 
-Han Chinese become the majority population in Outer Mongolia. Bye bye Mongolian culture.

-USSR/Russia even more nervous about China, which it now has the longest contingious border in the world with (suck it USA/Canada!). Perhaps a Sino-Soviet War is more likely.
 
-Han Chinese become the majority population in Outer Mongolia. Bye bye Mongolian culture.

-USSR/Russia even more nervous about China, which it now has the longest contingious border in the world with (suck it USA/Canada!). Perhaps a Sino-Soviet War is more likely.

Over what? Another strip of what was thought of as a useless backwater back then? The problem is more with the clarity of borders, the relations between China and Russia, and how much each country actually cares about such a backwater.
 
-Han Chinese become the majority population in Outer Mongolia. Bye bye Mongolian culture.

Uh...not necessarily. Nomadic Mongols (which will form the majority in 1920) would still persist in being Mongols. Han Chinese would live mostly in mining camps and stick to themselves. Mongolia isn't Xinjiang and it's not a place anyone would want to live long term in. The reason why Easterners are taking over in Xinjiang is that the Tarim has had a large Chinese presence since the Han Dynasty, so it's not like they're strangers to the area. In the meantime, I doubt anyone would want to live in Outer Mongolia.

Also, the Chinese government OTL hasn't been overly aggressive in "converting" Mongols to "Han" Chinese culture.
 
The Soviets will find another excuse, it's very hard to justify an anemic Chinese state (which it certainly is in the early 20th century) keeping a hold of something any Russia-centric state, USSR and Russian Empire alike, think of as their ideal buffer against China is pretty much going to be impossible. The Xinjiang Expedition proves that the Soviets weren't shy about nosing around in the periphery of Chinese authority. And Mongolia is an even more strategic area for the Soviets.
 
The Soviets will find another excuse, it's very hard to justify an anemic Chinese state (which it certainly is in the early 20th century) keeping a hold of something any Russia-centric state, USSR and Russian Empire alike, think of as their ideal buffer against China is pretty much going to be impossible. The Xinjiang Expedition proves that the Soviets weren't shy about nosing around in the periphery of Chinese authority. And Mongolia is an even more strategic area for the Soviets.

Stalin had installed a pro-Soviet puppet government in Xinjiang in the 1930s. The "provincial governor" Sheng Shicai was eventually fired by Chiang Kai Shek after he sent a letter to Stalin in 1944 asking to be annexed as an SSR. Stalin installed another pro-Soviet Islamist government, who were eventually taken to Moscow, imprisoned in the Tsar's former stables, and shot on the Kremlin's orders.

It's likely that when the warlord period ends, the new government will move to restore Chinese control over all of China, including Tibet, Mongolia, and Xinjiang. Which is what happened ITOL except for Mongolia.
 
Would there be any significant changes how the warlord period plays out with Chinese Mongolia?

At least one interesting effect of this would be that many Soviet-Japanese border conflicts wouldn't take place. (Well, there would be likely something but at least those on the Manchukuo-Mongolian border won't happen.)
 

Incognito

Banned
One big change that I see is if Mongolia where to be part of China, then Mongolians would be just another ethnicity in China and, at least in minds of your Average Joe in Europe or America, be thought of as being "Chinese" (like say, if you were to OTL say "Manchurian" or "Han" or "Cantonese" (well, Cantonese isn't an ethnicity, but still) to a person, the first thing that would pop into their head would be "China"). As such, the most world famous Mongolian, Genghis Khan, would be retroactively thought of as "Chinese". This might greatly impact the image of China in popular culture.
 
One big change that I see is if Mongolia where to be part of China, then Mongolians would be just another ethnicity in China and, at least in minds of your Average Joe in Europe or America, be thought of as being "Chinese" (like say, if you were to OTL say "Manchurian" or "Han" or "Cantonese" (well, Cantonese isn't an ethnicity, but still) to a person, the first thing that would pop into their head would be "China"). As such, the most world famous Mongolian, Genghis Khan, would be retroactively thought of as "Chinese". This might greatly impact the image of China in popular culture.

I'm not sure. Tibetans aren't thought of as Chinese, and nobody knows about the Uyghurs. But that would be interesting, wouldn't it?
 

Incognito

Banned
I'm not sure. Tibetans aren't thought of as Chinese,
I'd say that has to do with the continuing tensions there and the importance of the Dalai Lama. If Tibet was not previously the abode of the Dalai Lama or if the West for some reason supported China during the Tibetan invasion, more people today would think of Tibetans as a Chinese peoples.
and nobody knows about the Uyghurs.
Fair enough, but how many famous Uyghurs can you name? And yet everyone would know who Genghis Khan was. Its like how... everyone thinks of Leonardo da Vinci as Italian and not a Florencian (he was born in Republic of Florence; Italy did not exist yet).
 
I'm not sure. Tibetans aren't thought of as Chinese, and nobody knows about the Uyghurs. But that would be interesting, wouldn't it?

The Mongols are slightly different with regards to that. You can be an ethnic Mongol and still be Chinese. It's harder to be Uighur or Tibetan and Chinese because of the active separatist movements in those regions and because China has been less active in sinicizing those areas.

Source: My girlfriend is Mongol and I have Mongol and Manchu ancestry.
 

Rex Mundi

Banned
The Mongols are slightly different with regards to that. You can be an ethnic Mongol and still be Chinese. It's harder to be Uighur or Tibetan and Chinese because of the active separatist movements in those regions and because China has been less active in sinicizing those areas.

Source: My girlfriend is Mongol and I have Mongol and Manchu ancestry.

If Mongolia was still a part of China, how likely would it be that the Mongolians would have a separatist movement today? I.e., would "Chinese Mongolia" be more like Manchuria, in that it's just considered another part of China with a different culture, or more analogous to Tibet with widespread support for independence?
 
I know a Uighur couple, they are really not very Chinese at all. They speak Mandarin fluently but it is a second language to them.
 
If Mongolia was still a part of China, how likely would it be that the Mongolians would have a separatist movement today? I.e., would "Chinese Mongolia" be more like Manchuria, in that it's just considered another part of China with a different culture, or more analogous to Tibet with widespread support for independence?

Most Mongols live in Inner Mongolia, not China.

There is no separatist movement.
 
I wonder at the religious butterflies.

Don't forget that, prior to the Soviet 'purification' of Mongolia, it was the second center of Tibetan buddhism, with as many, if not more, Tibetan monasteries and monks as Tibet itself.

Dalai is, after, all a Mongolian word.

What would a world with both a Bogd Khan and a Dalai Lama be like?
 
Most Mongols live in Inner Mongolia, not China.

There is no separatist movement.

Technically their are, just not with any real support like in Tibet or Xinjiang.

Also, it's sort of hard to have a seperatis movement when A. an Ethno-National State of your ethnicity exists right next door (a movement to unify Greater Mongolia being different) and B. your Ethnic group is a small minority (only 17.5%* of IM is Mongol) in the territory in question.


*As an interesting side note, the Mongols have actually increased as a percentage of Inner Mongolias population since the 1940's.
 

Rex Mundi

Banned
Most Mongols live in Inner Mongolia, not China.

There is no separatist movement.

Did you read my post, or did you just answer without thinking? Because I know that most Mongols do not live in China and that there is hence no significant separatist movement. I'm not sure why you'd feel the need to inform me of that.
 
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