Mongol reconquest of China?

Dorozhand

Banned
Could the Tumu crisis, or any of the other attempts at this, have succeeded in reestablishing Mongol control over China? If so, what would this look like?
 
Could the Tumu crisis, or any of the other attempts at this, have succeeded in reestablishing Mongol control over China? If so, what would this look like?

If Tumu Crisis resulted in the panicking Ming moving their capital southward, like some courtiers suggested, the Ming was pretty much doomed.
 

katchen

Banned
Or could the Altan Khans have won out over the Manchus in the early 1600s, perhaps by conquering Li Tzu-cheng, perhaps by hooking up with the Russians or a combination of the two or perhaps, most intriguingly by conqu4ering a Siberia that the Russians obligingly unified for them during the Time of Troubles and expanded all the way to the East and North banks of the Volga and the WHite Sea to contact the Swedes across the Northern Urals Russia itself might be a tough nut for the Mongols by this point, even if divided during the time of Troubles and even ef the Altan Khan could unify the Mongols. Then again, if they were as strong as the Manchus and able to walk into China....
 
Could the Tumu crisis, or any of the other attempts at this, have succeeded in reestablishing Mongol control over China? If so, what would this look like?

If successful, then a Mongol led dynasty would have resembled one that was actually not too different from the Manchu's, who were themselves a semi-nomadic group of mounted warriors. They'd have to adopt much of Chinese culture, appointing their officials, institutions etc, and their foreign policy would have also been similar in terms of keeping the northern nomads under their fealty and eliminating those who did not (Kangzi, Yongzheng and finally Qianglong spent many years in military campaigns against the Zhungars for precisely this reason).

However, in terms of how much they would pay attention to encroachment by the Europeans is hard to say, as it would require many individual PODs within the ruling Mongol dynasty and much more difficult to predict. Maybe they'd be better, maybe worse, no way to tell.
 

katchen

Banned
If the Mongols themselves ruled Russia as well as China (or from Russia and Scandinavia to and including China including Siberia all the way to the Bering Strait) then yes, their policy would start out very much Chinese but with some major departures. For one thing, Gelugpa Buddhism would play a major role in how such a Mongol Dynasty would define itself.At the very least, Buddhism would be more important and have more patronage in China than it would have had at any time since the Tang.

Secondly, controlling the "barbarians" would mean two things. The nomads the Mongols would not already control and that they would need to control, such as the Kazakhs and the Tatars and the Uzbek and the Turkoman and maybe the Aimak and the Tajik and the Hazara are Muslim. The Mongols would be trying very hard to get them to either accept Gelugpa Buddhism or settle someplace else like the Ottoman Empire or Persia or India or be killed off. The other set of relations would be with Muslim --and Christian European states, to whom the Khanate would appear both profitable, threatening and a potential alliance partner. What would "use barbarians to fight barbarians mean for a China either bordering on Russia and Sweden or Poland and Austria and Sweden and able to play European nations against one another? How would that affect European history? For that matter, how would European history have been affected if the Chi'en Lung Emperor had driven the Dzungars into Russia and decided to keep Siberia and stay on Russia (and Sweden's Volga and Northern Dvina frontier, becoming a player in European politics much as the Ottomans did?
 
I'm not much smart in this but I recall reading that Mongolian forces played a large part in helping the Jurchens conquer the Ming. Perhaps have the Mongols and Jurchens somewhat merge, though not completely, and, through a bunch of incidents have, during or shortly after the Ming has control, a Mongolian individual takes control of the Ming. Possibly through marriage and inheritance of sabotage.
 

katchen

Banned
I think it was Khalkas who aligned with the Jurchen. It was the Oirat who were on the outs with the Manchu.
 
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