Mongol Persia

hey, all. this idea occurred to me the other day but i have no idea where to start. basically, to mix things up, the area of modern Iran stays under Mongol control either indefinitely or at least to the modern period. i mainly want to explore what changes could occur with this, perhaps up to the Shah being replaced by a Khan. for context, the Ilkhanate fell in the mid-14th century.
 
Assuming that the rest of the Mongol empire dissolves as per OTL, I expect the Mongols to be relatively similar to OTL, with the obvious exception that they will probably not convert Iran to Shi'a Islam. Then again, it's not completely out of the question that they might still do so for any number of political reasons.

The reason I think it would be mostly the same is that Iran was like China in that it had an established and highly-developed civilisation that tended to assimilate "foreigners". For instance, the Qajar Dynasty were actually Turkic Azerbaijanis that were very quickly Persianised. The Mongol Yuan dynasty famously assimilated largely to Chinese customs and culture, so I can't see the Ilkhans being any different. If anything, they might try to be "more Persian than the Persians" to legitimise their rule.

The one downside I could see is that, depending on how serious the Ilkhans are about reuniting the empire is that they could have wasted precious men and money on fools errands against the Chagatai.
 
that tradition of assimilation does put a bit of a damper on the idea, but this is as much a plausibility check as a brainstorming session so i'm open to all possibilities ;)
 
either/or :p like i said, i don't know much about Mongol Persia and specifically mentioned the Ilkhanate because that's the one that came up in the quick search i did last night. i think my ultimate goal is what and how modern Iran could look like with some more Mongol influences on its culture and government
 
Part of the issue with this is the fall of the Ilkhanate can be mainly chalked up to the various epidemics that ravaged Iran in the early-mid 1300s which decreased their legitimacy, leading to the rise of the Jalayarids, the rebellion by the various Anatolian Beyliks and the return of Chagatayid power in areas like Afghanistan and Kashmir (leading eventually to the Timurid Empire). I do not see a way to save the Ilkhanate without avoiding the Black Death in Iran or Iraq at least.


Either way, the Ilkhan is an amazing example of a state built effectively and on firm ground with great potential, that ultimately failed, its failure was sheer bad luck at an enormous scale.

With the Ilkhans continuing in power we see a less Persian dominated bureaucracy as seen in the Safavid period, yet more diverse (far) than the subsequent Timurid period and the continued use of Yassa as the legal ruling code of the land, as it was in say the Golden Horde Russia. Ghazan's reforms on currency and fiscal policy was extremely important and likely would continue had they not fallen, with by the mid 1370s, Iran being far better transitioned and economically viable than under the terror of early Timurid rule. The cities of Baghdad, Tehran, Istafhan, Basra, Delhi, etc would be far more populated, Iran in general would by the 1350s recovered from the invasions of Hulagu and Temujin, not be further depressed by the more vicious Timurid invasion. All in all both Iraq and Iran are far more prosperous in the 1400s and then into the 1500s and onward, and by extension of butterflying the Timurids as without the power base in Afghanistan and Peshawar, would not have the power to defeat the Tughluq Shah Nasir-ud-Din Mahmud at Delhi, depopulating the city and stressing the surrounding countryside.

In terms of religion, we do not likely see the Shi'i rise to particular prominence in Iran as they did with the Safavid and subsequent rulers. Shi'i in this regard will likely be the majority in the north around Gilan and the province of Mazandran and the in areas like Tehran and Qom. Sunni will dominate the south around Shiraz, Istafhan, Hormuz, Qeshm, Gwadar, etc... The populace of non Muslims is further far larger, with Christian tribalists and various forms of traditional religious groups living on the periphery close to Afghanistan, Buddhists remain a portion of the court as advisors on medicine and such. Christian slaves from Georgia and Circassian also are frequent in this tl. Possibly what we see in future times is Iran looking similar to Iraq unless a strong secular national identity is built, with sectarian violence being commonplace without a strong government entity and the absence of unifying secular goals.

The Ottomans likely still rise to power, conquering Constantinople earlier unless the Mamluks or Ilkhan takes interest. Though the Ottomans if they do rise, perhaps become even more so Greek, perhaps abandoning their Turkish heritage, as the Ilkhan will rule vassals to the direct east of the Ottomans lands and Ankara. In which case the possibilities for what to do with the Ottomans are endless.

Cilicia Armenia survives as long as the Ilkhan supports them. They continue raiding and attacking the Mamluks, making little headway. Armenians in general are more populous in Syria and Anatolia.

The Mamluks after their victory at Marj al-Saffar, had quelled the Ilkhan menace, though this isn't guaranteed to last. If the Mamluks do falter, they lose Syria and little else, as the area south of Dimshaq will be well guarded. However, more likely is continued Mamluk success and a far better Egypt, which recovers from the Black Plague and doesn't fall to the Ottomans. Portuguese trade wars are likely fought by an uneasy alliance of Ilkhanate, Mamluks and Gujarat as opposed to the Mamluk-Ottoman alliance of the period. Mamluks also in the future could foreseeably continue its cultural golden age, especially after a recovery in the 1500s.

Maybe this will stir a discussion.
 
...With the Ilkhans continuing in power we see a less Persian dominated bureaucracy as seen in the Safavid period, yet more diverse (far) than the subsequent Timurid period and the continued use of Yassa as the legal ruling code of the land, as it was in say the Golden Horde Russia.
...
Maybe this will stir a discussion.

In the Golden Horde Russia Yassa never was the "legal ruling code".

Even among the nomadic population of the Golden Horde Yassa quickly lost any influence after converting to Islam. At least where it was in contradiction with Muslim values.

And last but not least the majority of the historians tend to think that there hadn't been any Yassa in the first place, just old Mongol ways and traditions, never written down or codified any way.
 
In the Golden Horde Russia Yassa never was the "legal ruling code".

Even among the nomadic population of the Golden Horde Yassa quickly lost any influence after converting to Islam. At least where it was in contradiction with Muslim values.

And last but not least the majority of the historians tend to think that there hadn't been any Yassa in the first place, just old Mongol ways and traditions, never written down or codified any way.


Really? I had assumed in the Golden Horde it was the ruling code, Ibn Tayymiyyah made Takfir on them and other Mongol polities mainly for its supposed use as opposed to Sharia.

Whether it is old Mongol codes or an actual law code means little difference. When I use it, I mean Mongol ruling forms as opposed to Sharia or other Arab, Persian, Turkish or Kurish traditional laws.
 
Really? I had assumed in the Golden Horde it was the ruling code, Ibn Tayymiyyah made Takfir on them and other Mongol polities mainly for its supposed use as opposed to Sharia.
You specifically mentioned the Golden Horde Russia.
That's why I reacted.

But 'Yassa' is for the Mongols only, well... and for the Turkic nomadic peoples closely associated with the Mongols and thus 'legally' associated, amalgamated with the 'ethnic' Mongols.
For example according to the old "Mongol taboo" washing yourself in the running water (like a river or a spring) is punishable with death penalty.
But if you're a Russian (or Chinese or Iranian) you are free to wash whatever way you like, no fear, the Mongols don't care.
Because 'Yassa' is not applied to the conquered non-Mongol non-nomadic peoples.


Whether it is old Mongol codes or an actual law code means little difference. When I use it, I mean Mongol ruling forms as opposed to Sharia or other Arab, Persian, Turkish or Kurish traditional laws.
That's closer. Islam as any 'world' religion fought against any traditional customs of the newly converted peoples if they were not in line with Muslim ways.
So in any alternate Mongol Iran it is being Muslim means most of the old Mongol traditional laws inconsistent with Islam to be carefully eradicated in the long run.
 
You specifically mentioned the Golden Horde Russia.
That's why I reacted.

But 'Yassa' is for the Mongols only, well... and for the Turkic nomadic peoples closely associated with the Mongols and thus 'legally' associated, amalgamated with the 'ethnic' Mongols.
For example according to the old "Mongol taboo" washing yourself in the running water (like a river or a spring) is punishable with death penalty.
But if you're a Russian (or Chinese or Iranian) you are free to wash whatever way you like, no fear, the Mongols don't care.
Because 'Yassa' is not applied to the conquered non-Mongol non-nomadic peoples.



That's closer. Islam as any 'world' religion fought against any traditional customs of the newly converted peoples if they were not in line with Muslim ways.
So in any alternate Mongol Iran it is being Muslim means most of the old Mongol traditional laws inconsistent with Islam to be carefully eradicated in the long run.

I wouldn't say that Islam removes cultural laws and preferences. The Taliban and the majority of Pashtun states ruled on mixtures of cultural and Islamic laws, same for many other polities throughout history, including the Ottomans and Safavids. It all depends on your style of rule and the strength of the culture in question.
 
The way I see it, there are several dynastic possibilities that could satisfy the OP. They are:

  • The Ilkhanate
  • The Chobanids
  • The Jalayirids
  • The Timurids
  • The Shaybanids
  • The Baburids

Each is interesting in its own way and for its own reason, and none strike me as particularly implausible. The challenge, of course, would be getting any of them to endure for more than a century.
 
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