Mongol Invasion of Germany

katchen

Banned
I fully agree with your assessment. They would vassalize them (see OTL Rus principalities) rather than directly ruling them.
You hit the nail right on the head, Mon Angel. They would vassalize them Mongol Khans like vassals. They can call upon them to send knights and other troops to fight battles, even in Mongolia and China.
. And what is the best way to vassalize the conquered lords of the Holy Roman Empire?
By being crowned Kaiser by the Pope.
To do that, Batu Khan must convert to Christianity.
Is that a problem?
Maybe not.
Batu's Golden Horde successor, Birkei Khan, IOTL led the Kipchak Golden Horde to convert to Islam less than a hundred years later. Apparently, the Kipchak are not terribly wedded to Tengriism.
So? Is Germany and Italy worth a Mass to Batu Khan?
Maybe so. And crowning Batu Khan Kaiser is definitely worth it to the Pope, since this gives him the chance to begin with, to bring Russia into the Catholic fold and beyond that, who knows about the rest of the Mongol Empire. :):)
 
I don't know what this means. On every campaign odds was against Mongols. Jin Dynasty had more soldiers and were more advanced technologically. Kwarezm where more numerous, par on term of technology and add on top of that distance involved.
Russia had numbers advantage, same applies to Europe with great distance.

Numbers were not against the Mongols in Hugalu's expedition, and I'm not sure about Japan - to name two I'm reasonably sure of.

What I mean is, the Mongols did not have superhuman abilities - they won those campaigns because of better leadership and unity, not because their soldiers were man per man better than equivalent (untrained peasant levies do not count as soldiers) enemies.

So that means when faced with castles, they have exactly the same problems as everyone else and exactly the same tools as a nonMongol - a bit better since they can grab siege engineers from wherever (as they did for some campaigning in China), but they have no special advantage by virtue of being Mongolian.

Subduing/vasslazing wouldn't take much time. It would take one campaign same as OTL European conquest.

Yes, it would take much time. Even if you call it all one campaign, that's a lot of places to take - "OTL European conquest" is four years for just the Rus. Going beyond that would add to that until its an open question if even a less cripplingly alcoholic Ogedei lives to see the end (55 on his death OTL, after all).

Hold and control would require prolonged time. And i don't want to speculate whether Mongols could hold and control Europe for longer time, for example as did Ottomans. After all in Persia/Middle East, Mongols managed to hold it some 50-60 years only.

Me neither, since it depends on circumstances beyond the scope of "what if the initial invasion is able to do it".
 
I don't think the Mongols would go for it, Even if we do have a Khan become Catholic I highly doubt he risk alienation all of the faiths by backing the spreading of it. The khan may pay lip service to the Pope, although what if the Pope decides to recognize the Khan as emperor so he can spite The Holy Roman Emperor and keep his own power with just a distant emperor to worry about.
 
I don't think the Mongols would go for it, Even if we do have a Khan become Catholic I highly doubt he risk alienation all of the faiths by backing the spreading of it. The khan may pay lip service to the Pope, although what if the Pope decides to recognize the Khan as emperor so he can spite The Holy Roman Emperor and keep his own power with just a distant emperor to worry about.

About the same as any other anti-emperor, possibly less (as the khan is less interested in dealing with the "legitimate" one).
 
Now I'm intrigued by the Mongols taking the concept of the HRE and applying it across the empire, at least with all lords being under the protection of the Great Khan, and possibly more princes and leaders being give the chance to elect the Khan.
 
Apropos horses: AFAIK every Mongol warrior had three or four horses. (If necessary, they could double as a source of food for the soldiers.)

Of course, their horses didn't come from Mongolia alone - when they defeated the Hsi-Hsia, they demanded some tribut in horses.

And the Mongols needed grass for their horses - doing it like every other army did (buying grain for them) would have made their army much slower.
 
And what is the best way to vassalize the conquered lords of the Holy Roman Empire?
By being crowned Kaiser by the Pope.
To do that, Batu Khan must convert to Christianity.
Is that a problem?
Maybe not...
So? Is Germany and Italy worth a Mass to Batu Khan?
Maybe so. :):)
The only legitimacy Batu Khan needed was to be the descendent of Chingiz Khan. All the world was destined to be ruled by the offsprings of Temutchin with the help of brutal force, terror and violence.
Batu Khan was the head of Jochi domain of the World Mongolian Empire which was a hundred times more honorable than being Kaiser.
And at that period the Mongols were not ready to convert to any world religion. Their old traditional Mongolian beliefs and Jasa of Chengiz Khan were good enough for them.
 
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