Mongol Conquest of Europe = Sealion?

I can see the Mongols being perhaps capable, but it would be a body able, mind not willing sort of deal. There are far more important things for the Mongols to throw money and lives at, at least in their thought.
 
What books (unless they're not in English, in which this poor monolingual American is shit out of luck)?

I have trouble imagining a Mongol army being "utterly destroyed" by anything except the Mamluks or a similar style force. Its just that hard to destroy an army, especially one disciplined enough to have the concept of an orderly retreat.

You are out of luck... hungarian ones :( But if i ever came along any english sources, i try not to forget you :) And orderly retreat is one thing- retreating while the passes are closed and because of the pursuers you have to cross the mountains... recipe for high losses.
 
You are out of luck... hungarian ones :( But if i ever came along any english sources, i try not to forget you :) And orderly retreat is one thing- retreating while the passes are closed and because of the pursuers you have to cross the mountains... recipe for high losses.

Thanks.

Either way, kudos to Hungary for handling round #2 much better than the first attack - whether this was a major raid or invasion or in between, it seems to have rebounded from the first attack better than one might have expected.
 
Thanks.

Either way, kudos to Hungary for handling round #2 much better than the first attack - whether this was a major raid or invasion or in between, it seems to have rebounded from the first attack better than one might have expected.

Bela IV was smart despite how things went and turned out for him.
 
What books (unless they're not in English, in which this poor monolingual American is shit out of luck)?

I have trouble imagining a Mongol army being "utterly destroyed" by anything except the Mamluks or a similar style force. Its just that hard to destroy an army, especially one disciplined enough to have the concept of an orderly retreat.

There are some English sources. It appears to have been a raid and most damage to the Mongols appears to have been done by the weather. The Mongol army definitely was not annihilated as the careers of Nogai Khan and Talabuga Khan show.
 
There are some English sources. It appears to have been a raid and most damage to the Mongols appears to have been done by the weather. The Mongol army definitely was not annihilated as the careers of Nogai Khan and Talabuga Khan show.

Interesting.

And this looks contradictory: "This campaign, which was disasterous for them, I shall describe in a later chapter on the Nogais. Here it will suffice to say that Tulabugha is reported to have retired on foot accompanied only by a woman and a sumpter beast. This disaster did not, however, prostate them, for two years later, namely in 1286-1287 we find Tulabugha and Nogai making another great campaign. This time against Poland." (History of the Mongols from the Ninth to Nineteenth Century, Part 2 by Henry Hoyle Howorth)

So it was a complete disaster, except that they could launch another great campaign only two years later? That doesn't sound like a complete disaster to me.
 
I don't think them defeating European feudal levies and conquering Europe is impossible at all, certainly not anything like Sealion. I think the odds of such an empire lasting any protracted period of time or being anything more than an even shorter-lived equivalent to the Carolingian Empire are rather miniscule. Conquering Europe is the easy part, holding on to that conquest is the far harder part.
 
Thanks.

Either way, kudos to Hungary for handling round #2 much better than the first attack - whether this was a major raid or invasion or in between, it seems to have rebounded from the first attack better than one might have expected.

Well, lets agree in the word "attack" :)

And do not get deceived: the second one was not the same as the first one: they were not the "same" mongols, they were golden horde, the good ole days were over for them, europe/hungary developed some, etcetcetc.

And for the record, they have done the pillaging/ravaging part pretty good in this case too.
 
Interesting.

So it was a complete disaster, except that they could launch another great campaign only two years later? That doesn't sound like a complete disaster to me.

Muhi was a complete disaster for Hungary. Still, a few years later, Béla led some sucesfull campaigns against the Babenbergs.

Dont undersestimate the regenerating abilities of the medieval kingdoms.
 
Facinating. Are there any good timelines or threads discussing the impact of a successful Mongol invasion of Europe that anyone would recommend?
 
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