Modern incarnation of a commerce raider

Khanzeer

Banned
The question here is to see a auxiliary cruiser/ commerce raider/ Q ship kind of a warship disguised as a merchant ship is possible in the modern [ late cold war ] era 1960 to 1990.
Obviously there will be little use or prospect of survival for these ships in a ww3 like scenario but can they be useful in smaller / limited wars between non superpower nations ?
Esp when your adversary has no aircraft carriers and few long range maritime patrol craft
What kind of weapons will be most useful for this kind of vessel ?
Obviously it does need some kind of defence against your typical desteoyer/ frigate
It probably does not need very sophisticated weapons to attack capture sink merchant ships
It would be very vulnerable to subs but how good will subs be in differentiating these ships from neutral merchant ships ?
 

Driftless

Donor
A mother-ship for small attack boats. Using the Somali and Iranian model. I'm a bit surprised that hasn't been used in more areas, as the small boats can be harder to track in high traffic zones.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
A mother-ship for small attack boats. Using the Somali and Iranian model. I'm a bit surprised that hasn't been used in more areas, as the small boats can be harder to track in high traffic zones.
Small attack boats are only useful close to natural choke points , confined waters etc

What kind of a weapon sensor suite should this commerce raider carry
 
This has been discussed here quite a lot of times, actually. In addition to spec-ops, in 1960-1990 timeframe I'd also raise possibility of discreet mining.
 
How about vertical launch missiles under cargo hatches? Could use an old bulk cargo ship. Vertical launch wasn’t really done until the mid 80s though.

There are some ready made systems now but how about missiles in containers on a container ship? Don’t know if possible in your TL.

For either ship you could carry lots of missiles. Both for offense and defense. You could tow a small “barrage balloon” to give OTH radar coverage. If you could get away with OTH launches, nobody would know who attacked them. Could have been a sub. Could hide CIWS for more defense.

Not sure if technically possible in the years given though.
 
Small attack boats are only useful close to natural choke points , confined waters etc
one of the best examples from OTL on this was in the Persian Gulf during the Iran-Iraq War/Tanker War. The Iranians used hordes of small attack boats (and a couple of frigates) to attack just about everything they could reach, the US responded with mobile barge/bases that housed their own small boats and helicopters (backed up by several regular warships of the USN at times)…
 
Couldn't this be useful for hypothetical oil wars/scenarions like Zeihan's "tanker war"? If your objective is to take down an oil tanker you don't need as much of a defense as you might in a fair fight.
 
Couldn't this be useful for hypothetical oil wars/scenarions like Zeihan's "tanker war"? If your objective is to take down an oil tanker you don't need as much of a defense as you might in a fair fight.

Once you succeed once, it'll be really hard to pull it off again, I imagine.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Let's see if we take a average sized freighter
Put a couple of deck guns 4 inch , MG 50 cals and automatic cannons 23mm
Put some MANPADS for air defence , a helipad and a couple of helos for boarding parties
Can they be fitted with SSM like styx or exocet for some defence against warships?

Will they benefit from from ASW mortars like RBU can be used to disable merchant ships up close and also provide some form of deterrence against subs ?
 
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In his novel The Cobra Frederick Forsyth had two converted grain carriers transformed into Q-ships to intercept cocaine shipments, destroy the ships and to detain the crews on a remote island. Heck, he even converted an old Blackburn Buccaneer into a figher to shoot down the cartel's cocaine-carrying airplanes.
 
Considering the fact that your Q-ship is going to be in the 10,000 to 20,000 ton range, you could fit basically anything onboard as long as you can disguise it. The only reason you couldn't put in a long-range air defense suite is because the air-search and missile director radars can't be concealed. The radar issue would probably limit you to CIWS that can be concealed on the deck. Because surface search radars are normal, active-homing anti-ship missiles would work; the NSM would probably be the best option. There are also a number of concealment options for large-caliber guns, so a 3-inch automatic would be a reasonable choice.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Considering the fact that your Q-ship is going to be in the 10,000 to 20,000 ton range, you could fit basically anything onboard as long as you can disguise it. The only reason you couldn't put in a long-range air defense suite is because the air-search and missile director radars can't be concealed. The radar issue would probably limit you to CIWS that can be concealed on the deck. Because surface search radars are normal, active-homing anti-ship missiles would work; the NSM would probably be the best option. There are also a number of concealment options for large-caliber guns, so a 3-inch automatic would be a reasonable choice.
Plus I feel few enemy warships will try to engage this ship with Antiship missiles beyond horizon , given the disguise most warships will visually identify it before any shooting starts and in that case even a couple of 4 inch guns can be devastating to a modern frigate at close range
 
Not to mention that if the attacked ship has the chance to send a SOS, if there's a carrier or an air base in the vincinities, the Q ship is going to end up in a short time.
 

Khanzeer

Banned
Not to mention that if the attacked ship has the chance to send a SOS, if there's a carrier or an air base in the vincinities, the Q ship is going to end up in a short time.
True although only a handful of navies have carriers
The biggest threat could be long range maritime recon planes and ship borne helicopters
 
I imagine it would be important to rapidly change many characteristics of the ship, if it's attacking commerce and a description is sent out. Perhaps have heavy ballast tanks to be able to shift it up and down in the water by a few meters, have cranes with which to move containers around on deck and place decoy funnels or cranes. Have pre-made stencils for name changes as well, and just about every flag available.

Say a you've taken an enemy tanker, but it managed to send of a description before you shot off the comms mast or took the crew hostage. If they send out a description which says "two deck cranes, riding high in the water, etc." Put op a fake crane, and you're set.
 
The US actually had a version of these as eyeships/intel gatherers with some nasty surprises if people got too close. Based on the Victory Ships if I remember right

***Update***
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_research_ship

Some were based on Liberty Ships, some on Victory Ships. Not quite what was imagined in the initial post but maybe on the right track...
 
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If your objective is just to sink the other ship, you need to take out the bridge first. Modern vessels have very small crews, with only two, at most three, on watch on the bridge. Destroy the bridge (which is also where the radio equipment is) and the ship can be destroyed at leisure. Torpedo's would be my favorite, as they are almost always lethal and concealable. Alternatively you could board and scuttle. I am unsure about missiles. Modern ships are big, BIG, and will take a bit of work to sink, so whatever you want to use, it needs to be powerful, and not leave much of a trail. One other thing is the possibility of being tracked via satellite. How much that would change in wartime, that's beyond my expertise.
 
Because doing so would be violating international law. The 1856 Paris Convention which all major maritime powers have agreed to outlaw privateering. Modern commencec warfare needs to be follow a strict set of wars.

What the OP describe amounts to piracy that all law enforcement and military ships have jurisdictions to engage and arrest such raiders.
 
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