Modern devices duplicated in 1920's tech
- Thread starter DuQuense
- Start date
Strange you should say that...
Amiongst my jottings I have the rather sad little tale of a British historian whose car is hit by lightning on a back road, blasting him and the car sideways (sorry, language inadequate) across the wheatsheaf of probabilities into a 1915 WW1 analogue in Germany. The point is that the Germans use their heads, claim it's 1905 and study the car and the historian's laptop.
I reckoned that the Germans might just be able to produce a keyboard and typewriter-based printer. More crucial, their analyses of the car's rubber and plastics could have transformed Germany's problems with blockades of imported rubber and minerals. Whether Germany could have produced semiconductors, I'm not certain.
Theoretically, Germany could have produced better aircraft, gastight airship cells, good electrical insulation and shells with shaped-charge warheads to shatter tanks. If the historian's files include info on the mistakes Germany made strategically and tactically, the effects on the war could be catastrophic.
Incidentally, the Brits get an Armistice by Brock and Maxwell realising that the Germans are short-circuiting the development process. They warn that the historian could theoretically detonate from the accumulated cross-continual transfer energy. As the poor guy has a problem with static electric discharges when he gets anxious or excited, the Germans agree to an armistice as they are afraid of a blast reaching from the Baltic to the Adriatic.
Any thoughts ?
Amiongst my jottings I have the rather sad little tale of a British historian whose car is hit by lightning on a back road, blasting him and the car sideways (sorry, language inadequate) across the wheatsheaf of probabilities into a 1915 WW1 analogue in Germany. The point is that the Germans use their heads, claim it's 1905 and study the car and the historian's laptop.
I reckoned that the Germans might just be able to produce a keyboard and typewriter-based printer. More crucial, their analyses of the car's rubber and plastics could have transformed Germany's problems with blockades of imported rubber and minerals. Whether Germany could have produced semiconductors, I'm not certain.
Theoretically, Germany could have produced better aircraft, gastight airship cells, good electrical insulation and shells with shaped-charge warheads to shatter tanks. If the historian's files include info on the mistakes Germany made strategically and tactically, the effects on the war could be catastrophic.
Incidentally, the Brits get an Armistice by Brock and Maxwell realising that the Germans are short-circuiting the development process. They warn that the historian could theoretically detonate from the accumulated cross-continual transfer energy. As the poor guy has a problem with static electric discharges when he gets anxious or excited, the Germans agree to an armistice as they are afraid of a blast reaching from the Baltic to the Adriatic.
Any thoughts ?
Paul MacQ
Donor
Most of The Componants for sentermetric Radar have been independantly created, Like the Cavity Magatron invented in several places in the 1920s
Hitting the Wiki
The first simple, two-pole magnetron was developed in 1920 by Albert Hull[5] at General Electric's Research Laboratories (Schenectady, New York), as an outgrowth of his work on the magnetic control of vacuum tubes in an attempt to work around the patents held by Lee De Forest on electrostatic control.
Hull's magnetron was not originally intended to generate VHF (very-high-frequency) electromagnetic waves. However, in 1924, Czech physicist August Žáček[6] (1886-1961) and German physicist Erich Habann[7] (1892-1968) independently discovered that the magnetron could generate waves of 100 megahertz to 1 gigahertz. Žáček, a professor at Prague's Charles University, published first; however, he published in a journal with a small circulation and thus attracted little attention.[8] Habann, a student at the University of Jena, investigated the magnetron for his doctoral dissertation of 1924.[9] Throughout the 1920s, Hull and other researchers around the world worked to develop the magnetron.[10][11][12] Most of these early magnetrons were glass vacuum tubes with multiple anodes. However, the two-pole magnetron, also known as a split-anode magnetron, had relatively low efficiency. The cavity version (properly referred to as a resonant-cavity magnetron) proved to be far more useful.
So more advaned Radars are a possibility in the 1920s only would take a few Readers of abscure Scientific Journels to put one and one together."
The concepts of the Hovercraft were known at this time so a possible.
Helocopter was buildable with the Tech of the time.
Producing a Laser small enough for survey work was also somthing I was thinking was possible.
Improvement in Seismology might be possible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflection_seismology
Germans and US had the lead in this. US had major advantage in having a Nation with oil fields to discover.
Hitting the Wiki
The first simple, two-pole magnetron was developed in 1920 by Albert Hull[5] at General Electric's Research Laboratories (Schenectady, New York), as an outgrowth of his work on the magnetic control of vacuum tubes in an attempt to work around the patents held by Lee De Forest on electrostatic control.
Hull's magnetron was not originally intended to generate VHF (very-high-frequency) electromagnetic waves. However, in 1924, Czech physicist August Žáček[6] (1886-1961) and German physicist Erich Habann[7] (1892-1968) independently discovered that the magnetron could generate waves of 100 megahertz to 1 gigahertz. Žáček, a professor at Prague's Charles University, published first; however, he published in a journal with a small circulation and thus attracted little attention.[8] Habann, a student at the University of Jena, investigated the magnetron for his doctoral dissertation of 1924.[9] Throughout the 1920s, Hull and other researchers around the world worked to develop the magnetron.[10][11][12] Most of these early magnetrons were glass vacuum tubes with multiple anodes. However, the two-pole magnetron, also known as a split-anode magnetron, had relatively low efficiency. The cavity version (properly referred to as a resonant-cavity magnetron) proved to be far more useful.
So more advaned Radars are a possibility in the 1920s only would take a few Readers of abscure Scientific Journels to put one and one together."
The concepts of the Hovercraft were known at this time so a possible.
Helocopter was buildable with the Tech of the time.
Producing a Laser small enough for survey work was also somthing I was thinking was possible.
Improvement in Seismology might be possible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflection_seismology
Germans and US had the lead in this. US had major advantage in having a Nation with oil fields to discover.
Paul MacQ
Donor
Yes looking at Night Vision
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_intensifier#Generation_1_-_Significant_amplification
Found this. that might have some relavence
http://spie.org/samples/PM165.pdf
almost 1920s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_intensifier#Generation_1_-_Significant_amplification
Found this. that might have some relavence
http://spie.org/samples/PM165.pdf
almost 1920s
I wrote in the ASB forum frivolous ideas about the Axis getting a hold of thousands of C64 computers, and how it might have affected the post-war era. I think that as long as one can build a reliable transistor, most modern applications can be made (with size and speed limits of course).
Digital communication over the phone line pre-WW2 would be a cool idea. It couldn't handle voice probably, but sending text messages more reliably shouldn't be difficult. We might see an earlier enigma, that is vastly superior to its OTL brethren.
Automated telephone exchanges, electronic telegrams (like email but over the telegraph lines), and pixel-based printers are other ideas.
Digital communication over the phone line pre-WW2 would be a cool idea. It couldn't handle voice probably, but sending text messages more reliably shouldn't be difficult. We might see an earlier enigma, that is vastly superior to its OTL brethren.
Automated telephone exchanges, electronic telegrams (like email but over the telegraph lines), and pixel-based printers are other ideas.
AK-47
The Fererov Avtomat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federov_Avtomat was an assault rifle built in 1915. It had its weaknesses (It seems that it was a bit intollerant of dirt and grime) but it worked. Had someone taken the idea and run with it, perhaps there could have been a more soldier-proof version by the 1920's.
I suspect the submarine snorkle could have been done, also.
In-flight refueling was experimented with in the 1920's. That could have been important--planes take off and climb to altitude, then refule before going on their mission.
I suspect that fuel-air explosives would also have been doable, but I'm not sure.
The Fererov Avtomat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federov_Avtomat was an assault rifle built in 1915. It had its weaknesses (It seems that it was a bit intollerant of dirt and grime) but it worked. Had someone taken the idea and run with it, perhaps there could have been a more soldier-proof version by the 1920's.
I suspect the submarine snorkle could have been done, also.
In-flight refueling was experimented with in the 1920's. That could have been important--planes take off and climb to altitude, then refule before going on their mission.
I suspect that fuel-air explosives would also have been doable, but I'm not sure.
Redbeard
Banned
Just imagine drop tanks on the Bf 109s in Battle of Britain.
I suppose some kind of clusterbomb will be possible too.
An angled flightdeck on an early carrier would mean a much more speedy launch and recovery of big strikes.
I wonder if a wire guided bomb/missile dropped from high altitude would make level bombers a real threat to moving warships or be used against massive fortifications? Perhaps a wire guided AA missile for close-in defense of warships, or a wire guided torpedo?
A "Squid" type anti-submarine mortar is quite simple to build and use once you have Asdic and the idea.
The recoil less gun and the hollow charge principle ought to be possible much earlier, as ought man portable anti tank weapons like Panzerfaust or Bazooka.
Napalm?
Or what if the P-pill becomes widespread in the 1920s and the hippie movement blossom in the west in the 1930s - while Hitler goes on as OTL - bad pill, very bad pill...
A versatile tank with sloped armour, a three man turret and a medium-high velocity gun in the 50-75mm range will be possible as soon as a reliable engine with 250+ shp is available. Ought not be a problem in the 1920s. A lot of 40-45 calibre 75mm naval guns with 600-800 mps MV would be available for main armament. Just need a revised recoil and recuperator system.
120mm and 81mm mortars as (Soviet and German) from WWII should be possible in 1920s and would give cheap, heavy and mobile firepower to infantry from batallion to Divisional level.
A bomber relying on speed rather than defensive armament (i.e. Mosquito) might add some realities to the claim: "The bomber will allways get through!".
Regards
Steffen Redbeard
Another one
Dr. Gatling attached an electric motor to his famous gun, getting an unheard-of rate of fire--but that rate of fire on a black powder gun would produce an amazing amount of smoke, and the gun had reliability issues, from what little I've seen of it.
Suppose that someone had run with it after smokeless powder came along...
I'd have serious doubts about anything wire guided and launched from an airplane--could the wire remain intact? Other wire guided weapons--torpedoes and AA missiles--require that the launching vehicle have a good target solution, And could an AA missile's wire survive long enough?
Dr. Gatling attached an electric motor to his famous gun, getting an unheard-of rate of fire--but that rate of fire on a black powder gun would produce an amazing amount of smoke, and the gun had reliability issues, from what little I've seen of it.
Suppose that someone had run with it after smokeless powder came along...
I'd have serious doubts about anything wire guided and launched from an airplane--could the wire remain intact? Other wire guided weapons--torpedoes and AA missiles--require that the launching vehicle have a good target solution, And could an AA missile's wire survive long enough?
Sounds like a Dieselpunk WI! 
Well, let's see...
Radar has been mentioned, but also concepts in Radio Frequency such as using frequency hop to avoid jamming, assuming you find a good way to coordinate it (Heady Lamar's "music box" option a little early, though the two sides lose sync rather quickly). Just the idea of using modulation as an encoding device, or tonal responces ala what eventually got used in modems could allow non-voice data at some primitive level, even if only using tone response to coordinate the above freq hop (e.g. "beep-boop" signals or even auto-triggers a hop to the next freq in the matrix).
Well, let's see...
Radar has been mentioned, but also concepts in Radio Frequency such as using frequency hop to avoid jamming, assuming you find a good way to coordinate it (Heady Lamar's "music box" option a little early, though the two sides lose sync rather quickly). Just the idea of using modulation as an encoding device, or tonal responces ala what eventually got used in modems could allow non-voice data at some primitive level, even if only using tone response to coordinate the above freq hop (e.g. "beep-boop" signals or even auto-triggers a hop to the next freq in the matrix).
Windows Calculator
It always amused me thinking that if my computer was sent back in time possibly the only parts scientific people could readily understand would be windows calculator - but this could still lead to a scientific revolution! But a lot of ideas are built on top of other ideas.
Something like the discovery of penicillin being more widely explored would make a big difference to WW1.
It always amused me thinking that if my computer was sent back in time possibly the only parts scientific people could readily understand would be windows calculator - but this could still lead to a scientific revolution! But a lot of ideas are built on top of other ideas.
Something like the discovery of penicillin being more widely explored would make a big difference to WW1.
I see no reason why we couldn't have WWI era enclosed cockpit monoplanes, and hydroplanes for use on coastal defense boats. What about an early version of the bazooka? It wasn't a complex piece of technology and simply required decent aerodynamic fins to make it work properly.
Here's a really really big one: ANTIBIOTICS
Sulfa drugs arrived in 1930's via aniline dye industry & that was great guns in the 1920's. For Penicillin simply have a Dr Fleming analog do the petri dish discovery 15+ years earlier. Techniques for growing lots of Penicillium mold came from the brewing industry!
Another medical biggie: POLIO VACCINE
Doable with 1920's tech, just had to do the experimental work....
Sulfa drugs arrived in 1930's via aniline dye industry & that was great guns in the 1920's. For Penicillin simply have a Dr Fleming analog do the petri dish discovery 15+ years earlier. Techniques for growing lots of Penicillium mold came from the brewing industry!
Another medical biggie: POLIO VACCINE
Doable with 1920's tech, just had to do the experimental work....
A World War I guided missile: the Siemens-Schuckert Torpedogleiter (torpedo glider). Around one hundred of these were built for trial purposes and seemed to be nearing production status. They were tested with various airships of the German army and navy and were also intended to be carried by the large Siemens-Schuckert RVIII bomber aeroplane.
For other very early attempts to build cruise or guided missiles see the wikipedia articles on
Kettering_Bug
Hewitt-Sperry_Automatic_Airplane
Larynx_(unmanned_aircraft)
Kettering_Bug
Hewitt-Sperry_Automatic_Airplane
Larynx_(unmanned_aircraft)
Hydroplane boats were built in the 20's -30's for experimentation, and a few were tried for commercial use.
However problems with the pump propellers for water jets, prevented them from being commercially viable.
It took the invention by an Australian in the 50's of a In-Line Impeller to drive a Pump to make water jets commercially viable. Leading to todays Hydroplanes, and Sea Doo's.
[?Does todays Mlitary use Sea-Doo's for anything?]
So this is very possible for my time traveller.
?Can whe have a 30mm Electric Chain Gun? A early [30's] M-8 Greyhound [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M8_Greyhound] with Chain Gun,
may not hurt German Panzers, but will do a number on the Italians in Libya.
?Can whe come up with a 1930's version of the Phalanx system?
The question is poorly defined. What does it actually mean to "do something" with 1920's technology which was not done? If you put 1920's technologies together in imaginative ways, you can do a lot of things without any breakthroughs (whatever a "breakthrough" means). What about incremental refinements of, e.g., metallurgy or plastics?
Cook
Banned
Fleming just said, “Hey, what’s this mould doing on the bread?” It took Howard Florey to come up with a way to use it.
Some modern tank armor techniques like spaced armor, or the T-72's laminated perforated steel plates and rubber combination, ERA were doable. HEAT, HESH, APFSDS ammo. AP mines like the S-mine, Claymore, stake mines. AT mines like self forging platter mines, Tellermine. All modern Brandt based mortars. Plastic explosives, RDX.
Modern day gas masks and modern nasties like V-series nerve agents, certainly simple stuff like Sarin.
Modern day gas masks and modern nasties like V-series nerve agents, certainly simple stuff like Sarin.
Its really astounding how much stuff we have now could have been available during the Roaring Twenties, making it fairly mature technology by WWII.
Vacuum tubes were of course around at the time, so what about the computer? If someone had an interest in Babbage, and made the necessary intellectual leap, how advanced could computer plausibly have gotten by the 1940s? Could solid-state electronics have been invented by then?
Y'know, this TL is looking a lot like some of the stuff the had in the old comics. With small enough transistors, you could have Dick Tracy's radio watch, even if he'd need to run a wire up his sleeve and down his shirt to a battery pack on his belt - another wire like that could be the antenna.
Vacuum tubes were of course around at the time, so what about the computer? If someone had an interest in Babbage, and made the necessary intellectual leap, how advanced could computer plausibly have gotten by the 1940s? Could solid-state electronics have been invented by then?
Y'know, this TL is looking a lot like some of the stuff the had in the old comics. With small enough transistors, you could have Dick Tracy's radio watch, even if he'd need to run a wire up his sleeve and down his shirt to a battery pack on his belt - another wire like that could be the antenna.