No. Vietnam was never conquered.This is already happening as we speak.
No. Vietnam was never conquered.
The difference between an insurgence and a hot war against an organized country with a capital city and diplomatic relations is substantial.Neither was the Taliban.
I have played with the notion of JFK avoiding Vietnam and all the assorted mess; negotiated settlement ala Laos, which breaks down but during a period when no American any longer gives an F about a nation they can't pronounce or locate on a map. And then only for Scoop Jackson to get into office circa 1980 and launch us full throttle into defending the Shah in an Iranian Civil War (which only becomes one because US intervention does not allow the Shah to be ousted quickly and means it persists into fighting), which spills out into Soviet intervention in Afghanistan and Iraqi positioning to weaken Iran under Saddam Hussein -- which spills out into Iraqi positioning against Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and an overall threat to Israel -- which leads to possible US action against Iraq as well ala bombing Cambodia. Oh what a lovely clusterfuck. And all that occurs because there is no Vietnam Syndrome to temper US action under a Hawk.
The US cannot tolerate a Left Wing revolution against the Shah, because it may ally with the Soviets. The US cannot tolerate the Ayatollah and the radical clerical class in Iran, because it is so anti-American. And Afghanistan has all of its own obvious implications. And these two are next door to each other.
Angola? Maybe something in Latin America?Have the US be embroiled in a Vietnam like conflict with a POD no earlier than 1980. Bonus points if you can find a conflict the US can be involved in which isn't the in the Islamic World.
The difference between an insurgence and a hot war against an organized country with a capital city and diplomatic relations is substantial.
And they were not afterward. In Vietnam, the US never took them out of power. Big difference. This is why I propose a war in Iran, which was not impossible in the late 70s and 80s, as a possible POD to fulfill the OP.Was the Taliban not in political control of Afghanistan prior to the invasion?
Angola? Maybe something in Latin America?
Great idea. No Vietnam syndrome has a lot of potential.
A seemingly positive POD with dystopian effects later down the line. Vietnam ended the era of the "Imperial Presidency" and gave the intelligence, military and diplomatic establishment a much needed dose of realism.
Take that away and the 80s could be explosive. With SAVAK, the remnants of the military and with the Shah's massive arsenal Iran could seem like a war that the U.S. could win, if they never made the 'Nam experience.
Shiite martyrs,, Radio Teheran, laser guided bombs, a carousel of US-aligned military governments, the Iraqi nuclear reactor is bombed by the USA....
This would be an epic TL. And in 1987 when the USA pulls out and is at the nadir of its military power Saddam decides to swallow Kuwait...
Maybe something in Latin America?
Hanoi never falls. Kabul did