Deleted member 1487
How does the modern nation of Austria retain south tyrol? Note, I mean German speaking south tyrol, not Italian speaking Trentino.
Well, the easiest way I could think of is an agreement between Austria and Italy in 1914. Basically austrians accept italian claims on Trentino and Friuli (probably minus Trieste, or giving Trieste a special status) in exchange for italian entry in war on Central powers side. This division could follow the language border rather than the geographical one. Indipendently by the the war outcome, Austria would probably retain South Tyrol.
Well, the easiest way I could think of is an agreement between Austria and Italy in 1914. Basically austrians accept italian claims on Trentino and Friuli (probably minus Trieste, or giving Trieste a special status) in exchange for italian entry in war on Central powers side. This division could follow the language border rather than the geographical one. Indipendently by the the war outcome, Austria would probably retain South Tyrol.
However if Trentino and Istria where offered for neutrality, I belive that Italy will remain out of the war, happly profiting of both sides need of industrial supplies.
That might be possible, but I dont think that Italian pride could stand for it. Remember, they also wanted Savoy, Nice, Dalamatia, and lots of territory in Africa.
Anti Austrian sentiment was sky high and the Allies would later offer much much more then that, and a chance the get back at the hated enemy. The Italians would ask what the Allies had to offer, get a similar proposal to OTL, and join the Allies.
That might be possible, but I dont think that Italian pride could stand for it. Remember, they also wanted Savoy, Nice, Dalamatia, and lots of territory in Africa.
Post WW2?
Austria gets seen as Germany's first victim (as it so often is) and Italy doesn't quite get off so free as OTL for some reason. Tyrol is returned to Austria as a matter of common course in the post-war border rearranging.
Actually if the chief of staff of the Italian army had remained the same then there was a strong possibility that Italy might have stayed with the Central Poweres. This is accordinf to the recent book The White War, which is about the war between Italy and Austria-Hungary.
Savoy and Nice were not exactly the hottest topic in 1914-15.
Trento and Trieste were at the top of the list, with Istria and Dalmazia a close second.
Africa? I am not so sure either. The Lybian war ended just a couple of years earlier, and effectively 55,000 men are still there suppressing guerrillas.
Maybe if there were a possibility to get a real settler colony, but there nothing like that on the market.
IMHO you re talking of the Fascist targets, which will come in a generation, not of the 2nd decade of 20th century.
There are also significant numbers in favor of neutrality (socialists and catholics in first place).
My gut feeling is that Trentino, Istria and a reasonable arrangement for Trieste in exchange for friendly neutrality would have been a deal. Pity that Austrians were too boneheaded and full of themselves to make a deal, even if Germany pushed them more than once.
Actually, the central powers, if they accepted the italian claims, were in the position to offer much more to Italy than the entente. Basically an awful lot of french colonies in Africa.
Im sure Savoy, Nice and Corsica woulf be thrown into the deal too. But, as I said, the Italians saw Austria as the literal 'evil oppressing empire' which for a few hundred years they were. They would not fight on the same side. The victory speech over the Austrians in WWI is actually printed in every single Italian barracks, for example.
Timing is important, though. Italy could not enter war against Britain, since the british could easily strangle italian commerce with a blockade. So this agreement with Austria must be made before Germany invades through Belgium, triggering the british DOW. Besides, if Italy manages to attract enough french troops on her border, Germany could actually win the run to Paris in TTL, leading to a possible CP victory.
Of course, it wasn't the main concern to get Savoy and Nice back, but still an irredentist aim. As was the concept (not a bad one, as it would later be proved correct) that Libya was a settler colony. Also I read somewhere that Eritrea was suitable for White settlement too.
I dont know how AH would accept keeping Trieste as an exclave, but apart from that it might be sensible. Trieste would eventually need to rejoin the Patria, though.
This, though it wont be a 'world war', could work. There will have to be a war against austria eventually, though. There just has to! For pride, revenge, and of course territory.
I hope this makes everything more clear. Anyway, this discussion is supposed to be about post war Austria, not Italy...
Well, the easiest way I could think of is an agreement between Austria and Italy in 1914. Basically austrians accept italian claims on Trentino and Friuli (probably minus Trieste, or giving Trieste a special status) in exchange for italian entry in war on Central powers side. This division could follow the language border rather than the geographical one. Indipendently by the the war outcome, Austria would probably retain South Tyrol.
I Agree,However if Trentino and Istria where offered for neutrality, I belive that Italy will remain out of the war, happly profiting of both sides need of industrial supplies.
Not really.Austria a victim of Germany? Quite curious: the argument usually goes that Austria wanted to become a part of Germany
Italy got off scot free?
Zara, Fiume, Istria, eastern Friuli, all the colonies, Trieste as a UN mandate - if this was scot-free...
This, though it wont be a 'world war', could work. There will have to be a war against austria eventually, though. There just has to! For pride, revenge, and of course territory.
I hope this makes everything more clear. Anyway, this discussion is supposed to be about post war Austria, not Italy...
Not really.
Its far more seen as a victim.
As the old saying says; Austria's greatest achievement is convincing the world Beethoven was a Austrian and Hitler was a German.
If I recall correctly, South Tyrol has a high degree of autonomy in Italy. Could it vote to return itself to Austria?
Austria a victim of Germany? Quite curious: the argument usually goes that Austria wanted to become a part of Germany
Italy got off scot free?
Zara, Fiume, Istria, eastern Friuli, all the colonies, Trieste as a UN mandate - if this was scot-free...