Miscellaneous >1900 (Alternate) History Thread

[FriendlyGhost]

It recently occurred to me to wonder what British currency might look like, had it never been decimalised; while the symbolism is likely to be consistent, I did wonder what denominations might be in circulation (given that, even after decimalisation, old denominations have been withdrawn and new ones circulated).

Might I please ask if there has been any speculation on this sort of thing, at any point?

I don't remember seeing any previous discussion about this.
Here's some thoughts from me:

• with 12d in 1s, by now 1d would be virtually worthless, so the lowest denomination coin might now be the thrupenny bit (¼ of a shilling, so 1¼ of a modern decimal penny); so there'd be no more pennies or ha'pennies;
• sixpences would still be used (equivalence to 2½ modern pence);
• the most commonly used low-denomination coin would probably be the florin (2s = modern 10p) but I suspect half-crowns (2/6 = modern 12½p) would probably go, as too similar in value (or maybe half-crowns would stay and florins go);
• crowns (5/- = modern 25p) would be another mainstay of low-denomination coinage, just as the decimal 20p (introduced in 1982) is OTL;
• 10/- notes (= modern 50p) would have been withdrawn in the 70s or 80s, leaving just the half-sovereign coins;
• £1 coins would have been introduced at a similar time to OTL (1983);
• £1 notes would have been withdrawn in the 80s or 90s (as OTL in England, though they're still in regular use in Scotland and, I think, Northern Ireland);
• £2 coins would also have been introduced at a similar time to OTL (1998);
• guineas (1/1/0 - £1 and 1s = modern £1.05) would be discontinued by the 80s at the latest;
• iirc, all pre-decimal notes were white, but I'd expect coloured notes to come in sometime in the 70s or 80s.

Spoiler: Explanation of terms for those not familiar with pre-decimal British currency

- £1 was 20 shillings (1/- or 1s) each of which was 12 pennies (1d), giving 240 pennies in the pound;
- prices/amounts could be written as £-s-d (e.g. £1-2s-6d) or with slashes (e.g. £1/2/6) - with the latter being more common for just shillings and pennies (i.e 2/6 was used much more than 2s-6d);
- the d stood for denarius and the s not for shilling but for solidus, while the £ is a stylised L and stands for libra - in other words, all based on Latin.

 

[Nivek]

I don't remember seeing any previous discussion about this.
Here's some thoughts from me:

This is a pure grade accountant nightmare

 

[Snowstalker]

In the Reconstruction, Gilded Age, and Progressive eras, the Democrats were the party of free trade while the Republicans were the party of protectionism. This had definitely switched by the 80s, if not earlier (setting aside Trump's protectionism closer to the present day), and was obviously a consequence of the Democrats becoming the party of the industrial unions, but when exactly did the flip happen?

 

[Arkenfolm]

What if napalm/napalm B is invented before WWII? It's not too chemically complex for that era and saw widespread use in 1945 and the Korean War. It was immediately a controversial weapon for how gruesome it was, although would only become an iconic symbol of the brutality of war thanks to Vietnam. If both sides in WWII are using it in 1939 or 1940, could it become as associated with WWII as poison gas is with WWI and banned by international treaty in the aftermath in the same manner many aspects of WWII strategic bombing (Dambusters raid, Dresden, Tokyo) were banned OTL?

 

[Tiro]

I don't remember seeing any previous discussion about this.
Here's some thoughts from me:

• with 12d in 1s, by now 1d would be virtually worthless, so the lowest denomination coin might now be the thrupenny bit (¼ of a shilling, so 1¼ of a modern decimal penny); so there'd be no more pennies or ha'pennies;
• sixpences would still be used (equivalence to 2½ modern pence);
• the most commonly used low-denomination coin would probably be the florin (2s = modern 10p) but I suspect half-crowns (2/6 = modern 12½p) would probably go, as too similar in value (or maybe half-crowns would stay and florins go);
• crowns (5/- = modern 25p) would be another mainstay of low-denomination coinage, just as the decimal 20p (introduced in 1982) is OTL;
• 10/- notes (= modern 50p) would have been withdrawn in the 70s or 80s, leaving just the half-sovereign coins;
• £1 coins would have been introduced at a similar time to OTL (1983);
• £1 notes would have been withdrawn in the 80s or 90s (as OTL in England, though they're still in regular use in Scotland and, I think, Northern Ireland);
• £2 coins would also have been introduced at a similar time to OTL (1998);
• guineas (1/1/0 - £1 and 1s = modern £1.05) would be discontinued by the 80s at the latest;
• iirc, all pre-decimal notes were white, but I'd expect coloured notes to come in sometime in the 70s or 80s.

Spoiler: Explanation of terms for those not familiar with pre-decimal British currency

- £1 was 20 shillings (1/- or 1s) each of which was 12 pennies (1d), giving 240 pennies in the pound;
- prices/amounts could be written as £-s-d (e.g. £1-2s-6d) or with slashes (e.g. £1/2/6) - with the latter being more common for just shillings and pennies (i.e 2/6 was used much more than 2s-6d);
- the d stood for denarius and the s not for shilling but for solidus, while the £ is a stylised L and stands for libra - in other words, all based on Latin.

Thank You most kindly for sharing your thoughts!

This is a pure grade accountant nightmare

It's all what you're used to.

 

[Zyobot]

'Gerald Ford Meets Alexander Solzhenitsyn'.

(Which he refused to do IOTL.)

 

[Nivek]

I know that's a popular talking point, but I’d think that the “war advances technology more than peacetime” narrative is compromised by the deaths of so many potential scientists, engineers, technicians, and other would-be innovators during wartime.

I think is more 50/50 but again those events were so massive events have to be mentioned to begin with

 

[Zyobot]

I think is more 50/50 but again those events were so massive events have to be mentioned to begin with

Elaborate, please?

 

[Mayukh]

Is there any good perhaps finished tl whose main pod is trotsky succeds lenin instead of stalin ??

 

[Tiro]

I don't remember seeing any previous discussion about this.
Here's some thoughts from me:

• with 12d in 1s, by now 1d would be virtually worthless, so the lowest denomination coin might now be the thrupenny bit (¼ of a shilling, so 1¼ of a modern decimal penny); so there'd be no more pennies or ha'pennies;
• sixpences would still be used (equivalence to 2½ modern pence);
• the most commonly used low-denomination coin would probably be the florin (2s = modern 10p) but I suspect half-crowns (2/6 = modern 12½p) would probably go, as too similar in value (or maybe half-crowns would stay and florins go);
• crowns (5/- = modern 25p) would be another mainstay of low-denomination coinage, just as the decimal 20p (introduced in 1982) is OTL;
• 10/- notes (= modern 50p) would have been withdrawn in the 70s or 80s, leaving just the half-sovereign coins;
• £1 coins would have been introduced at a similar time to OTL (1983);
• £1 notes would have been withdrawn in the 80s or 90s (as OTL in England, though they're still in regular use in Scotland and, I think, Northern Ireland);
• £2 coins would also have been introduced at a similar time to OTL (1998);
• guineas (1/1/0 - £1 and 1s = modern £1.05) would be discontinued by the 80s at the latest;
• iirc, all pre-decimal notes were white, but I'd expect coloured notes to come in sometime in the 70s or 80s.

Spoiler: Explanation of terms for those not familiar with pre-decimal British currency

- £1 was 20 shillings (1/- or 1s) each of which was 12 pennies (1d), giving 240 pennies in the pound;
- prices/amounts could be written as £-s-d (e.g. £1-2s-6d) or with slashes (e.g. £1/2/6) - with the latter being more common for just shillings and pennies (i.e 2/6 was used much more than 2s-6d);
- the d stood for denarius and the s not for shilling but for solidus, while the £ is a stylised L and stands for libra - in other words, all based on Latin.

FriendlyGhost, might I please ask how you worked all this out? I'm a born Watson and would love to get a Behind-the-Scenes insight into your deductions.

 

[czareason]

What if Franklin Roosevelt listened to some of his supporters and tried to become a dictator? Could he have succeeded? How long could he last? A Business plot to restore democracy??

 

[Grey Wolf]

FriendlyGhost, might I please ask how you worked all this out? I'm a born Watson and would love to get a Behind-the-Scenes insight into your deductions.

IIRC Florins came into existence as part of an abortive plan (by Gladstone???) for decimalisation. Two shillings were essentially 1/10 of a pound, so the base was being laid to radically change things. But it got no further than that

 

[Tiro]

I wonder what impact a Victorian decimalisation of the currency might have had?

Whoops - wrong subforum!

 

[Mayukh]

Britain, France, Spain, Italy, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Romania and Poland gives an Ultimatum to Stalin in 1939 over Sphere of Influence in Baltics. Would he back down?Who would win if a war happens??(Germany is Neutral and Neutered. So you dont need to worry about them.)

 

[Zyobot]

'Mao Zedong Develops Pol Pot's Political Beliefs'.

Uh-oh...

 

[sampleswift]

Why was the Gulf War so successful when every other US major war since Vietnam War including the Vietnam war wasn't as successful?
Lack of insurgency war? Opponent collapsed due to trying to fight traditionally and failing?

 

[Zyobot]

'Richard Nixon Gets A Landslide Victory In 1968'.

(No, you can't change it so that Nixon's the incumbent four years early or what have you...)

 

[Codae]

Why was the Gulf War so successful when every other US major war since Vietnam War including the Vietnam war wasn't as successful?
Lack of insurgency war? Opponent collapsed due to trying to fight traditionally and failing?

Yes. The criterion for success was "opposing army is no longer capable of conquest", not "government constituted by friends of America continues to rule in the absence of direct external support".

 

[Zyobot]

‘1944 Election If FDR Dies Early'.

Guess it depends on exactly how early, but still...

 

[Gigachad3k]

Maximum Population Hungary can support?