Miscellaneous >1900 (Alternate) History Thread

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by RMcD94, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. McPherson McPherson; a guy who needs a shave.

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    The chances of that happening with an Admiral require so many inversions of probability that I can estimate it at 1x10^-3E. Now if the gunship is one of the QEs with Greenboys? Actually fairly good.

    ICH? Anyway a sense of humor is always good. Like the Russians were the best tankers ever and the Japanese submarine service was invincible. :winkytongue:
     
  2. John Fredrick Parker Donor

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    So here's a (possibly) small question - what if Albert I of Belgium had died in WWI? I ask because, at the time, he and his underage sons at the time were the only remaining male line descendants of Leopold I, and both he and his 14 year old heir took a surprisingly active part in the fighting, meaning they easily could have been killed by artillery or what have you.
     
  3. Lord Khuzdul Well-Known Member

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    Wehraboos are gonna wehraboo. I have seen idiots claiming Bismarck can take on and win against Yamato and Iowa at the same time.
     
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  4. Hammerbolt Well-Known Member

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    I'd like some of what they were smoking, please...
     
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  5. Count of Crisco Pithy remark here.

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    I love when I see some mentally stunted weeb say something like that. Thats actually what makes the chat in wows so fun. Everytime a Bismark comes up I know the player is going to throw a fit when he dies two minutes in.. Screaming about Russian bias or unrealistic game balance for the rest of the game.
     
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  6. McPherson McPherson; a guy who needs a shave.

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    I've seen the same with Jabois and Yabos about the Yamato and Iowa respectively. Never mind that both ships were critically vulnerable to air dropped torpedoes or both had joint defects where the torpedo defense met the amidships belt armor and were superheavyweight/Greenboy shell bait waiting to be sunk in some mythical one on one. Never mind the main battery shell dispersion issues both ships had; the rudder swing out issues of Iowa; the lousy bow and forecastle protection they both shared; or the huge fantail "sink me here" design flaw of Yamato.

    Besides, why worry about the facts "when looks cool" can beat real tool every time?

    :rolleyes:
     
  7. Zyobot Well-Known Member

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    ‘US Enters WW2 Earlier’.
     
  8. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    Okay so I had an idea for a vaguely Fallout and Exodus inspired timeline. (Alongside with a world of laughter a world of tears, What madness is this, Twilight of the Red Tzar and Pax Atomica.)

    The basic point of departure is the Spanish American where Henry M. Teller suffered a fatal heart attack on the eve of proposing the Teller Amendment. Causing the United States to annex Cuba from Spain instead of granting it its independence as in OTL. Strengthening the Manifest Destiny and Imperialist elements of American society in the process and causing a certain precedent that would see the USA taking a chunk out Northern Mexico during its intervention in the Mexican Revolution and outright annexing the territory that would become Panama from Columbia instead of aiding in its independence.

    World War 1 happened pretty much the same as OTL with the defeat of Germany, the formation of the Soviet Union and the collapse of the Austro-hungarian and Ottoman empire's, outside of a few minor tweaks. Though its during the interwar years and the great depression that things really started to diverge from OTL. With the Nazi's coming to power a little earlier and with the Axis being a little bit more competent/efficient than what they originally were, while on the other side of the Atlantic you have the early jazz movement being influenced by latin American music from the US's new territories, the added fun of guerilla resistance movements in those same new territories during the depression and the United States butting heads earlier and more intensely with Japan, thanks to their greater imperialistic ambitions.

    WW2 kicks off roughly around the same time as OTL but with Mussolini's Italy staying neutral for much of it. With the United States joining in after the Japanese somehow managed to pull off a Days of Infamy (taking out the two aircraft carriers that were stationed at Pearl at the time) styled surprise invasion of Hawaii and even a single bombing run on San Francisco. Which caused the United States to focus their attention and resources primarily against Japan in the Pacific Theater. Causing the Soviet Union and Britain to receive less in terms of materials and resources from the alt-lend lease and suffering even more casualties than OTL (especially the Soviets thanks to the fact they were already facing even more Axis troops since Hitler didn't have to divert them to support Mussolini.) While over in Asia the Republic of China found themselves doing better do the combination of gaining additional weaponry and materials from the alt-lend lease and that the Japanese had to divert more of their troops and materials from the mainland theater to the Pacific campaign.

    An alternate equivalent of D-day happened with Britain and France using colonial troops as cannon fodder in the first wave, since they lacked the same number of American troops as OTL and had to rely more on their own manpower. With Mussolini's (or his successor's) Italy joining the war on the side of the allies soon afterwards, since it became clear that the Nazi's were going to win. The war in Europe ends with the continent being damaged even worse than OTL, (outside of fascist Italy who managed to make it out practically unscathed, with some nice gains to boot) and with an iron curtain stretching a little farther west, now including Austria in the Warsaw Pack. While in Asia and the Pacific the war ends with the United States having to go through a Storming-Paradise, alternate Operation Downfall equivalent of invading the Home Islands. After the devastating accident at the Manhattan Project equivalent killed several key staff members by radiation poisoning, setting it back by over a year. Ending with Japan being divided in two with the Northern one 1/4th end up under Soviet influence, China coming out slightly better off and a single communist Korea. This would lead to the US schools to focus less on the atrocities enacted by the Nazi government and more on those of Imperial Japan.

    The first use of nuclear weapons outside of a few classified tests would be in the Vietnam War of the 1950's. Which acted as this worlds version of the Korean War with the United States Government intervening on the behalf of the Federal Republic of Vietnam was invaded by their Northern neighbors the Communist backed People's Republic of Vietnam. Outside of that the decade would also be marked by a "World of Laughter a Word of Tears" Disney-eque presidency, that played out pretty much the same as his counterpart (degraded race relations with African Americans, EPCOT, bullet trains, Mousketeers, Isreal allying with the Soviets and increased funding towards space). While back in Europe Britain and France have become adamant about holding onto the remainder of their colonial empires, through whatever means necessary, the Russians bear looms ominously over head even more so (even if it's beaten more badly and severely overstretched) and the spectre of fascism still stalks the streets. Yet it is the market's of the world that see the biggest change in the long term with the invention of the vacuum transistor in the place of our worlds transistor.

    Though the sixties passed as more or less the continuation of culture and trends from the fifties with the strangulation of the nascent counter culture movement, lack of any Vietnam analogue and the disastrous turn of the civil rights movement. There were several noticeable events that would place their marks on the history books. For the United States it would be the admittance of predominantly catholic and majorily Hispanic territories of northern Mexico, Cuba, Panama and Philippines into statehood. While in the old world things would be marked in the west with the colonial powers of France, Italy, UK, Portugal and Spain crushing the various independence movements through brutal methods, (many of which wouldn't become public for decades) even including the use atomic weapons and in the east a slightly earlier Sino-soviet split (didn't hurt that China had a slightly better starting point and more amicable relationship with the US than in OTL). Yet it would be in the space race that this decade would truly make its mark with the American lunar landing of '63 and later the Soviet in '69.

    The 70's would generally be a harsher time for the civilized with the oil crisis still occurring. Causing the United States and her allies to invest further into atomic energy which was already roughly ten to twenty years more developed than OTL. Alongside new investments towards synthetic fuels and alternative energies. Though on the optimistic side the first Lunar bases are built in this decade, alongside the first manned mission to Mars. Yet it would be the India-pakistan war of 76-79 that would truly shake the world, ending in a nuclear exchange that see Pakistan reduced to barbarity and India standing as the "pyrrhic" victor. Showing the world the true potential devastation of nuclear war yet also creating the idea that the one could be won if given the right methods. A dark harbinger of things to come...

    Little surprise that the beginning of the eighties would see the rise of the "atomic scare" as the prospect of nuclear war seemed closer than ever. As families rushed to build their own little fallout shelters in their backyards, with the United States government even going so far as to build an elaborate series of Sanctuaries across the nation. Massive underground bunker complex with vast arrays aquaponic farms, clinics, machine shops and even nuclear reactors... all ment to sustain independent populations of thousands for decades in the event of nuclear war. Yet that would not be all that this decade would be marked by as a new counter culture movement emerged in full bloom at this time, having already begun taking shape in the final years of the seventies. Alongside the first steps in mending of relations with the nations African American population. While the international North American bullet train system, spanning from Anchorage to Panama City was finally completed and at the high seas the US aircraft carrier Roosevelt sports the world's first fully functional Liquid fluoride thorium reactor. Yet as America begins to prosper the old world sees itself shaken as the first cracks in the Russian behemoth and its puppets begin to form, while in the west the remaining fascist countries the populace cry for democratic reforms and in the UK & France a political nightmare unfolds as the true extent of the colonial atrocities of the 50's & 60's are uncovered.

    The 90's not much happens outside of the spread of Thorium reactor technology and the continuing decline of the Soviet Union as China begins to rise. Hong & Macau remain in British and Portuguese hands, nearly sparked ww3...

    The 2000's would see a new, young party hardliner taking the seat of Premier in the Soviet Union... it soon becomes clear that a tyrant of a calibre not scene since the days of Stalin has taken the reigns of power as a wave of terror sweeps through the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pack. Practical robotic exoskeleton's are adopted by various militaries, along with development of practical Anti-air lasers capable of shooting down ICBM's mid flight, putting the thought of mutually assured destruction into question. The People's Republic of China and the United States of America cooperate on building and launching mankind's first generation ships, heading towards Alpha Centauri, sparking a new light of hope for humanity. Narrowly missing the horror and devastation of WW3 as a dying Soviet Union attempts to conquer the world or take it down with them trying, lasting for four horrific years and ending in nuclear winter on December 21, 2012.

    Over a century later the inhabitants of the remaining Sanctuaries would step out of their safe havens into a world changed and mutated beyond the recognition of their ancestors through chemical, biological and nuclear weaponry... (AKA Fallout, Wasteland and Exodus a Post Apocalyptic rpg:p)

    Thoughts and opinions...
     
  9. McPherson McPherson; a guy who needs a shave.

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    For good physics reasons, I reject Thorium based reactor technology. Sodium salt coolant core reactor modality is s.t.u.p.i.d. .

    eta
     
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  10. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    Good point. I mainly suggested it because it sounded like the benefits outweighed the costs but molten salt does sound... hazardous. That and I was afraid Fusion reactors sounded a bit too sci-fi.

    How did the rest sound?
     
  11. McPherson McPherson; a guy who needs a shave.

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    A mix of carrots and sour spinach.

    A lot of gamisms appear in the developed piece. It is my opinion that one might need ASBs in their flying saucers, if one wants European nations to hang onto colonies past 1960. (The end to Euro-adventurism begins with local national liberation movements (NLMs) proliferating as a reaction to Wilson's political and geo-strategic incompetence and European intransigence can be dated from post WW I (1922) for colonialism. Even earlier if the Chinese Xinhai revolution is the start date (1911), D-day in WW II is practically and financially impossible without the Americans who are the only ones with the "free" resources to mount it. That operation combined with the equally huge Marianas Islands invasion which happened within 2 weeks of each other was 85% American financed and BUILT. There appears to be a possible western-centric and hence misconceptionalized idea of how east Asia works seems present. Also, vacuum tube transistors? How completely backward, technologically, is this civilization?

    Generation travel ships STL with the technology described is impossible. With our technology it is impossible and it is closer for us than it would be for ATL them.

    One bright note; despite incompetent engineering and bungled politics, with a few Pods (like making the 1990s American congress science literates instead of the knuckle dragging buffoons and slack jawed Neanderthals they were, so the money is not turned off for fusion research in 1992), you just might get a working Q>4 tokomak by 2010. That means a fusion torch ship to Pluto by 2020 and your generation travel ships by 2100 AD. Don't even have to invoke a space bat for that one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
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  12. Zyobot Well-Known Member

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    Maybe this is more of a Chat topic, but what about 'Libertarian US South'? Much like my idea of making Ronald Reagan a libertarian-leaning RINO, I don't recall having seen this thread anywhere on AH.com as of yet.
     
  13. Mordalfus Grea Well-Known Member

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    So here is an idea of mine, a timeline where the terms for the Washington Naval Treaty, the London Naval Treaty, and the Second Washington Naval Treaty's tonnage limitations are different than in the OTL.
    • Battleships are limited to a maximum tonnage of 50,000 dry tons, with an escalation clause of 62,500 dry tons
    • Battlecruisers are limited to a maximum tonnage of 35,000 dry tons, with an escalation clause of 45,000 dry tons
    • Carriers are limited to a maximum tonnage of 35,000 dry tons, with an escalation clause of 45,000 dry tons.
    • Cruisers are limited to a maximum tonnage of 15,000 dry tons, with an escalation clause of 25,000 dry tons
    • Destroyers are limited to a maximum tonnage of 2500 dry tons
    • Submarines are limited to a maximum tonnage of 3500 dry tons
    Because of this changes the numbers of Battleships, Battlecruisers, and Carriers that each nation can build. Gun caliber restrictions remain the same across the board with the same 5:5:3:1.75:1.75 strength ratio as in the OTL.
     
  14. McPherson McPherson; a guy who needs a shave.

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    That massively favors the USN.
     
  15. Mordalfus Grea Well-Known Member

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    True but at least the British wouldn't have to skimp in regards to the Nelson Class
     
  16. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    Yeah I was trying to go with a cold war retrofuturism/used future feel to it while still keeping the physics and tech mostly plausible. So no fallout plasma guns turning people into piles of goo or terminators made from deceased soldier's.


    Good call on the fusion research, I was contemplating this appearing somewhere down the line before the bombs dropped but I figured it would be too ridiculous.

    Well the main point of departure was the Spanish American War (I know 19th century but still) so it wouldn't be implausible for Wilson to never become president. Generally I was planning on this world being more militaristic and authoritarian without sinking to the batshit levels of insanity of "What Madness is This." Along with cold war and the subsequent space and arms race environment continuing on for a bit longer.

    I was thinking about an eventual sequel set over a hundred years after the bombs dropped that is ASB.
     
  17. McPherson McPherson; a guy who needs a shave.

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    Let me worry about the Spanish American War. I'll get you started on the right path.
     
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  18. Zyobot Well-Known Member

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    ‘US Enters WW1 Earlier’.
     
  19. goalieboy82 Well-Known Member

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    here are two:
    Manfred von Richthofen survived WW1. would he be a part of the Luftwaffe in WW2.
    also
    Erwin Rommel does not die in WW2 and lives to a ripe old age. would he help in Post War West German Army (and NATO).
     
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  20. goalieboy82 Well-Known Member

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    how earlier, say 1915.
     
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