Miscellaneous >1900 (Alternate) History Thread

African Lion economies? (An African country rebuilding very quickly like the Asian Tiger economies?) Is this even possible?

Part of the problem, even for countries with huge resources, large urbanised modern cities, and educated populace are the ethnic and religious divisions resulting from colonialism. I would say Nigeria is a case in point - you have a lot of what is necessary for good economic growth and internal development, then you have religious fanatics, ethnic insurgencies, and instability.
 

Driftless

Donor
Part of the problem, even for countries with huge resources, large urbanised modern cities, and educated populace are the ethnic and religious divisions resulting from colonialism. I would say Nigeria is a case in point - you have a lot of what is necessary for good economic growth and internal development, then you have religious fanatics, ethnic insurgencies, and instability.
Nigeria was my first thought. You would think all the oil economy would be enough, but not so.

Anecdotal, but I had some Nigerian neighbors back in the 90's, who left their homeland for the US because of the instability and internal unrest. They were hardly alone in that feeling.
 
Was there a planned peace deal or ceasefire in the Russian Civil War to move the Whites past the Urals and into Siberia? I may just be getting Mandela'd but I distinctly remember this yet I can't find it again

Can you explain what you mean?

The White armies were always basically a federation of armies fighting in different places. They tried to get unified political oversight, but with some of them battling in the Ukraine and others in Central Asia, it was something of a mess.

Eventually what was left of the ones in Ukraine would be evacuated by ships in the Black Sea. Those falling back in Central Asia, would be able to get out through Vladivostock, or in some cases China.

I've forgotten more than I remember on this subject, but I don't recall any talk of a ceasefire. From what you say it would be to get the Ukraine armies Eastward? I can't see how that would help the Bolsheviks as it would just bolster Kolchak etc in the East.
 
Can you explain what you mean?

The White armies were always basically a federation of armies fighting in different places. They tried to get unified political oversight, but with some of them battling in the Ukraine and others in Central Asia, it was something of a mess.

Eventually what was left of the ones in Ukraine would be evacuated by ships in the Black Sea. Those falling back in Central Asia, would be able to get out through Vladivostock, or in some cases China.

I've forgotten more than I remember on this subject, but I don't recall any talk of a ceasefire. From what you say it would be to get the Ukraine armies Eastward? I can't see how that would help the Bolsheviks as it would just bolster Kolchak etc in the East.
i distinctly remember reading and seeing something about it but i genuinely cant remember where and i think i might honestly be crazy
 
How much longer could the Roman Empire have lasted if the three Roman Legions had survived the Teutoburg Forest massacre?

How would this have affected Adrianople?

Could the Western Roman Empire ITTL have survived long enough to encounter the Islamic expansion?
 
How much longer could the Roman Empire have lasted if the three Roman Legions had survived the Teutoburg Forest massacre?

How would this have affected Adrianople?

Could the Western Roman Empire ITTL have survived long enough to encounter the Islamic expansion?
I mean likely the German border would be shorter and more defensible. With a larger amount of land separating the inner wealthy provinces in Gaul, Spain and Italy from the frontier. Thats assuming Rome could effectively control the region and would not loose it as per OTL. At the same time the lack of an effective means of succession for the empire in the period, as well as various societal and martial issues could still cause its collapse. The massacre of the legions was not the single event that either spells doom for the empire, or guarenteed its long term survival.

Really if you want a longer lasting Roman empire I would suggest you establish a more effective means of getting a new emperor instead of everytime the old one dies the generals fight amongst themselves. Personally I would have the emperor Vespasian and his family establish a longer lasting Flavian dynasty through a Titus who has a longer reign, or a more popular Domitian.
 
Currently writing a timeline about a successful Reagan assassination in 1981. Long story short, Gore is president in 2000, and decides not to go to Iraq. John McCain is elected in 2004 because of the unpopularity of Gore's decision (and probably voter fatigue from 16 straight years of Democratic control of the White House).

My question is: how soon does the war end under McCain? I have him serving two terms from 2005-2013 and have reason to believe that McCain would've left it alone after the capture of Hussein (everything happens the same as OTL Iraq War-wise, just a few years later).

Would this happen or would the war extend to around the end of McCain's term?
 
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If the Confederacy had won the Civil War, what would have happened to the institution of slavery in the Southern States? Would the institution have remained unaltered? Would it be abolished under international pressure? Would it have been moderated by more laws regulating the treatment of slaves? Would it have gradually disappeared in response to economic changes, or maybe evolved into some form of apartheid?
 
If the Confederacy had won the Civil War, what would have happened to the institution of slavery in the Southern States? Would the institution have remained unaltered? Would it be abolished under international pressure? Would it have been moderated by more laws regulating the treatment of slaves? Would it have gradually disappeared in response to economic changes, or maybe evolved into some form of apartheid?
Based on the Reconstruction Era evidence of a defeated Confederacy...things would have actually gotten worse if the slavocrats had won. Much worse I hypothesize it could be when the brakes were completely off and any sense of human decency or outside pressure was no longer applicable to that slavocracy. The ante-bellum American South was an actual insidious cesspool of evil as it was, with those brakes on.
 
If the Confederacy had won the Civil War, what would have happened to the institution of slavery in the Southern States? Would the institution have remained unaltered? Would it be abolished under international pressure? Would it have been moderated by more laws regulating the treatment of slaves? Would it have gradually disappeared in response to economic changes, or maybe evolved into some form of apartheid?
Probably would've collapsed by the end of the 19th century and ended up with a military coup that abolished slavery as the generation who won the War of Northern Aggression dies off and the economy collapses thanks to global conditions (Long Depression) and local challenges (overreliance on slavery). Southern populism is a historically powerful force and likely some elites would've used it to gain power and the South would've transitioned into an extreme Jim Crow situation and used the former slaves as peons and debt slaves like in Latin America. This is helpful since the black peons could be used by the new political elite like they were at times in the OTL Jim Crow South (political machines like Boss Crump's machine in Memphis paid the poll tax and permitted them to vote) and by emancipating the slaves the CSA avoids international condemnation and the new elite (presumably a mix of New South types and Southern populists) greatly weakens the slavocrats and forces them to evolve.
 
Probably would've collapsed by the end of the 19th century and ended up with a military coup that abolished slavery as the generation who won the War of Northern Aggression dies off and the economy collapses thanks to global conditions (Long Depression) and local challenges (overreliance on slavery). Southern populism is a historically powerful force and likely some elites would've used it to gain power and the South would've transitioned into an extreme Jim Crow situation and used the former slaves as peons and debt slaves like in Latin America. This is helpful since the black peons could be used by the new political elite like they were at times in the OTL Jim Crow South (political machines like Boss Crump's machine in Memphis paid the poll tax and permitted them to vote) and by emancipating the slaves the CSA avoids international condemnation and the new elite (presumably a mix of New South types and Southern populists) greatly weakens the slavocrats and forces them to evolve.

Given this scenario, I fear that this could have evolved/transitioned to a more grimmer scenario than the above quoted... Cause, that even if it would happen, (IMO) that it only would only do apply to the bigger plantations from the main southern/confederates landlords and it probably wouldn't be enforced...
So it would be applied, if so, it would be only for the elite planter while the 'minor ones', perhaps could have kept their slaves and, also, in this scenario, 'd be possible that the legal status and situation of the slaves in the elite planter households would remain unchanged. Given that, I think that, especially, these planters from the Confederate elite would have lacked any incentive to not keep their 'personal servants' (slaves) and/or their House/Domestic slaves.
 
So it would be applied, if so, it would be only for the elite planter while the 'minor ones', perhaps could have kept their slaves and, also, in this scenario, 'd be possible that the legal status and situation of the slaves in the elite planter households would remain unchanged. Given that, I think that, especially, these planters from the Confederate elite would have lacked any incentive to not keep their 'personal servants' (slaves) and/or their House/Domestic slaves.
Slavery not being called slavery is the key here since there is the incentive of international pressure. Like OTL there will be plenty of ways that former slaves will find their new conditions are little better than the chains of slavery. As for minor planters I suspect Southern populism would ensure they "lose" their slaves (they will likely be able to hold onto the enslaved families via peonage and serfdom) since a yeoman family who works their own fields would easily be jealous of the richer people who have a few slaves to help them.

By Southern populism I mean figures like OTL's James K. Vardaman or Thomas E. Watson. I suspect that TTL they'd be emancipationists although their racial views TTL (as populists they shifted depending on the circumstance) might be Apartheid-esque or they might embrace some black participation in Southern society for economic reasons and more practically as an easy way to win votes (this was common among Southern political machines OTL during Jim Crow like Boss Crump in Memphis). I suspect that TTL they'd represent the poorer Southerner who owns few or no slaves. Although I suspect the military leader of the CSA will be someone who served in the Civil War as a junior officer, remained in the military, and by the 1890s is a general in his 50s-early 60s (I have no idea which OTL figures might be like this). Regardless, I think the "New South" era (with all its oppression of poor whites and poor blacks alike) will eventually emerge in the CSA just like how Latin America eventually industrialised.
 
Currently writing a timeline about a successful Reagan assassination in 1981. Long story short, Gore is president in 2000, and decides not to go to Iraq. John McCain is elected in 2004 because of the unpopularity of Gore's decision (and probably voter fatigue from 16 straight years of Democratic control of the White House).

My question is: how soon does the war end under McCain? I have him serving two terms from 2005-2013 and have reason to believe that McCain would've left it alone after the capture of Hussein (everything happens the same as OTL Iraq War-wise, just a few years later).

Would this happen or would the war extend to around the end of McCain's term?

If September 11th happens in 2001, I can't see that tying an invasion of Iraq to it is going to work by 2005. Sure, McCain could easily find another excuse, since Saddam Hussein provides many such things, but I would find it difficult to believe that the USA would see such support as it got OTL. As it was, Blair could easily have lost the vote to go to war and had to resign his government. I think it would be a harder ask to drag Britain into a pre-planned war in 2005 (I am assuming that McCain wins election on the back of a "I'll get tough with Iraq" stance). Thus, without some allies, and with less commitment from other countries, the US is going to have to bear more of the burden of the war, and it will probably go on longer. It would be more easy to declare it a case of US imperialism (even more easy than it was OTL) and the extra couple of years have also probably allowed Iraq to rebuild some of its forces better, and in this scenario I don't think it as likely that Iraq will destroy its own missiles in an effort to stave off war, thus meaning that it has a much greater missile capacity.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
A Timeline where the Russian White "Wrangel's" Fleet is interned in Canada and instead of being turned over to the Soviets, the vessels of the fleet are integrated into the Royal Canadian Navy. These vessels would end up forming the backbone of this timeline's RCN of the interwar period which would consist of one Dreadnought, one Battleship, one Protected Cruiser, one 2nd-class Cruiser, ten Destroyers, four Submarines, and five Gunboats. As the Battleship was of an older model and vastly outdated, it would be disarmed with it's guns made into shore batteries. Both the two cruisers and dreadnought could be retained for use in the RCN, though all three would see modernization in Britain during the interwar period. The destroyers, submarines, and gunboats would all be retained with some being scrapped and some being refitted over the interwar period.
 
A Timeline where the Russian White "Wrangel's" Fleet is interned in Canada and instead of being turned over to the Soviets, the vessels of the fleet are integrated into the Royal Canadian Navy. These vessels would end up forming the backbone of this timeline's RCN of the interwar period which would consist of one Dreadnought, one Battleship, one Protected Cruiser, one 2nd-class Cruiser, ten Destroyers, four Submarines, and five Gunboats. As the Battleship was of an older model and vastly outdated, it would be disarmed with it's guns made into shore batteries. Both the two cruisers and dreadnought could be retained for use in the RCN, though all three would see modernization in Britain during the interwar period. The destroyers, submarines, and gunboats would all be retained with some being scrapped and some being refitted over the interwar period.
I'm going tp ask if a British or Canadian tech base could retrofit or back-fit these ships? The engines and boilers appear to be a mix of British, German and French export tech. Only one outfit I know which could handle that dog's breakfast plus the "Russian" (read French) naval guns. That was either William Cramp and Sons or the Philadelphia Naval Yard. How would Ottawa feel about that option?
 
I'm going tp ask if a British or Canadian tech base could retrofit or back-fit these ships? The engines and boilers appear to be a mix of British, German and French export tech. Only one outfit I know which could handle that dog's breakfast plus the "Russian" (read French) naval guns. That was either William Cramp and Sons or the Philadelphia Naval Yard. How would Ottawa feel about that option?
There is nothing that says that Canada could not simply send the ships over to the US or UK for refit, more likely the UK during the period. However if it became a source of pride there is also nothing that says that Canada could not build up the local industry needed to do the work on the ships themselves, although it would likely cost as much as several brand new battleships to build up the yards and industry needed to do so.

And honestly the ships would doubtlessly need to go through a major overhaul at some point. The Russian Dreadnoughts were perfectly capable vessels when commissioned (and awesome looking ships IMO) but would have probably fallen into disrepair during their internment and in need of major work. And the uniquely Russian mishmash of components would mean that a simple effort to fix what was broke would get you nowhere.

If the Canadian government had the determination I could see the ships (really only the General Alekseyev and General Kornilov would be of much use IMO) going through a major refit and overhaul in the early to mid 30s. Receiving new boilers, turbines, secondary and flak batteries, sights, fire directors, and a superstructure. The ships emerging as an odd looking cross between the latter refits of the Soviet Dreadnoughts and the refit RN QEs.
 
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