Miscellaneous <1900 (Alternate) History Thread

[Arkenfolm]

What if the United States did not take over Hawaii?

I would guess Japan might do the same. Would be interesting to see how this flipped the dynamic of power in the Pacific during the 20th century.

More immediately, might it also make a US invasion of the Philippines less likely?

Japan has practically no chance of getting Hawaii with a POD after 1815, barring the terminal collapse of US influence in the Pacific. Hawaii had a ton of links to Britain and likely would have become a protectorate of the British Empire like Tonga or Fiji. Since unlike Fiji, Hawaii's monarchy was fairly stable in the late 19th century, it would likely have regained independence as a constitutional monarchy with racially charged and potentially unstable domestic politics because of tension between indigenous Hawaiians and outsiders (who would be mostly Indian--the Asian and white community would be a much smaller minority, likely not much more than 10% combined).

The interesting part would be what might happen if the UK and Japan still have a falling out like OTL in the 1930s and end up at war. Japan could theoretically have a much easier time invading a British Hawaii than an American Hawaii, but there wouldn't really be a reason to given that it would be a tertiary goal at best compared to neutralising Singapore, Australia and other parts of the British Empire in the Pacific.

 

[loneranger]

Japan has practically no chance of getting Hawaii with a POD after 1815, barring the terminal collapse of US influence in the Pacific. Hawaii had a ton of links to Britain and likely would have become a protectorate of the British Empire like Tonga or Fiji. Since unlike Fiji, Hawaii's monarchy was fairly stable in the late 19th century, it would likely have regained independence as a constitutional monarchy with racially charged and potentially unstable domestic politics because of tension between indigenous Hawaiians and outsiders (who would be mostly Indian--the Asian and white community would be a much smaller minority, likely not much more than 10% combined).

The interesting part would be what might happen if the UK and Japan still have a falling out like OTL in the 1930s and end up at war. Japan could theoretically have a much easier time invading a British Hawaii than an American Hawaii, but there wouldn't really be a reason to given that it would be a tertiary goal at best compared to neutralising Singapore, Australia and other parts of the British Empire in the Pacific.

FWIW Robert Merry’s biography on McKinley has the Japanese, American, and native Hawaiian population circa 1890s as “roughly equal” with an unspoken number of Chinese not advocating for political rights.

 

[Wendell]

Are you giving them Parma (upsetting the Habsburgs who want Marie Louise to have something)?
Are you giving them Lucca (upsetting the Spanish)?
Are you giving them part of the Papal States?

If you risk upsetting the Spanish (and disinheriting the former line of the kings of Etruria) then in time Modena would also inherit Parma?

I was thinking the Papal legates north of San Marino plus Milan.

 

[Deleted member 67329]

I was thinking the Papal legates north of San Marino plus Milan.

But why? Why would Austria concede so much to Modena?
There were discussions around the fate of the Papacy and the Legations in particular, but they never went anywhere principally because Spain was pro-Papacy and eventually Austria fully supported the restoration.

 

[ThatHistoryLover]

so here's a thought, what if Scotland agreed to fund Columbus' expedition? is it unlikely yes, but what would realistically happen?

Why would he go to Scotland?

 

[tophatgaming]

Why would he go to Scotland?

let's say he did, what would be the result of scotland being the first power in the new world?

 

[Ogrebear]

let's say he did, what would be the result of scotland being the first power in the new world?

If Columbus is sailing from Scotland is he more likely to do the Iceland > Greenland >Newfoundland route particularly given the stories of the Irish Monk who sailed that way?

The Scots are more likely to find the NE of the New World much more to their liking that the OTL Scottish colony, but it will not be long before the news reaches England, and sooner or later the two neighbours would be neighbours in the New World.

It might be the Scots go 'inland' down into 'Hudson's Bay' and the Great Lakes whilst the English go down the E. Coast finding Long Island, Manhattan etc. However clashes are still likely. A lot will depend on relations between the Kingdoms at the time.

 

[Ukrainian Victory]

FWIW Robert Merry’s biography on McKinley has the Japanese, American, and native Hawaiian population circa 1890s as “roughly equal” with an unspoken number of Chinese not advocating for political rights.

FWIW, I believe that Hawaii already held censuses during this time, so if you can find the relevant census data, there's no need for guessing.

Here is 1890 census data for Hawaii by ethnicity, for instance:

Hawaiian Kingdom - population in 1890 census

The Web site of the acting Hawaiian Kingdom Government presently operating within the occupied State of the Hawaiian Islands.

www.hawaiiankingdom.org

Off-topic, but what would it take for Germany to actively recruit Russian (and perhaps Austro-Hungarian) Germans to settle in Germany's heavily Polish eastern territories? Russia alone had almost two million Germans in 1897, after all.

Here's an ethnic map of Germany's eastern territories in 1910:

Red = Germans; Green = Poles

 

[Ukrainian Victory]

'Italian Hanseatic League'.

That is, the Italian maritime republics form their own "mercantile confederation" to provide common defense and facilitate free-trade networks in the Med. Might even come to rival the actual Hanseatic League some day, depending on how things go for them.

Maybe have an even stronger Ottoman Empire up to the point that its army and navy can seriously threaten Italy? That could compel various Italian city-states to unite more closely together for protection?

 

[ordinarylittleme]

If Katherine of Aragon and Arthur both died together, what would happen to her dowry? @isabella @EdwardRex @VVD0D95 @FalconHonour

 

[EdwardRex]

If Katherine of Aragon and Arthur both died together, what would happen to her dowry? @isabella @EdwardRex @VVD0D95 @FalconHonour

I think there would be a long fight between Henry VII and Ferdinand II. Perhaps it would finally be settled with Henry keeping the dowry and Eleanor of Austria arriving without one.

 

[The_Most_Happy]

If anyone knows / understands the Pombaline reforms, could you please reach out?

The descriptions I keep finding are either very vague or have been translated so much that I cannot understand them

Thank you!

 

[ordinarylittleme]

I think there would be a long fight between Henry VII and Ferdinand II. Perhaps it would finally be settled with Henry keeping the dowry and Eleanor of Austria arriving without one.

Ferdinand doesn't have custody or control of Eleanor

 

[isabella]

If Katherine of Aragon and Arthur both died together, what would happen to her dowry? @isabella @EdwardRex @VVD0D95 @FalconHonour

I think there would be a long fight between Henry VII and Ferdinand II. Perhaps it would finally be settled with Henry keeping the dowry and Eleanor of Austria arriving without one.

Pretty unlikely who the dowry will be a matter of contention here. If the wedding contract established who the dowry was to remain in England then Ferdinand has NO claim over it, if was to be given back then Henry will send it back. Ferdinand was the one who was making troubles about the money NOT Henry VII, who rightly wanted ONLY what was promised to him BEFORE marrying his younger son to Catherine. The problem was who Ferdinand had no intention to pay either the second half of his daughter’s dowry OR her allowance as he and Isabella had agreed who Castile was to pay for the girls, but that was impossible once Isabella died (specially as Philip wanted marry his own el dest daughter to the future Henry VIII). Henry VII on his side was only keeping his part of the deal made with Ferdinand and Isabella for which Catherine’s maintenance and expenses were still to be paid by her parents until her wedding to the younger Henry.

Ferdinand doesn't have custody or control of Eleanor

Without Catherine Henry will surely marry Eleanor as Philip was extremely keen on the match

 

[Ijustwanttoreadficsman]

What if the Gracchi's brothers reforms succeeded?

 

[ordinarylittleme]

but that was impossible once Isabella died

Why? Wouldn't Joanna pay?

 

[isabella]

Why? Wouldn't Joanna pay?

NO, reason for which the dowry in OTL was NOT paid. But for what reason Joanna should pay? First Catherine has still a living father who would be expected to do it, second Joanna‘s fathers and husband are NOT friend reason for which Philip would NOT consent to something negative for him (he was NOT favorable to Catherine’s English matches) and third Philip want the English match for his own eldest daughter. Expecting Joanna to pay her sister’s dowry when she has many daughters of her own to marry off and the available matches are few is without sense

 

[ordinarylittleme]

First Catherine has still a living father who would be expected to do it

You just said Castile was supposed to pay the dowries, and Joanna is the queen of Castile -

 

[isabella]

You just said Castile was supposed to pay the dowries, and Joanna is the queen of Castile -

While Isabella WAS ALIVE. Once she died, the agreement died with her and Ferdinand was the one who needed to pay for the maintenance, dowry and wedding of his daughter NOT Joanna, who had her own children to which think. Catherine stopped to be an infanta of Castile, remaining simply an infanta of Aragon as soon her mother died

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Catherine stopped to be an infanta of Castile

Wait what?