Miscellaneous <1900 (Alternate) History Thread

As a guy working on Alternate History Imperial China TL, what did you all imagined the impacts of more outward-looking and industrialised China in the 19th century on East Asia and South-East Asia?

Whether China is under Qing or any other ruling dynasties of China, most probably Han Chinese. I’d imagined the impact will be huge but unsure of specific consequences of it.
 
As a guy working on Alternate History Imperial China TL, what did you all imagined the impacts of more outward-looking and industrialised China in the 19th century on East Asia and South-East Asia?

Whether China is under Qing or any other ruling dynasties of China, most probably Han Chinese. I’d imagined the impact will be huge but unsure of specific consequences of it.
Oh God those Opium Wars ain't gonna be that easy for the British. But I think it would probably help them not loose too much land to the Russian, probably keeping control over Outer Manchuria, Tannu, Altai, Khakas and I'll guess those parts of Central Asia they had. They would also probably keep Taiwan, and I'll personally easily see them keeping complete control over some pieces of land that the Raj took from them OTL, perhaps even more
 

Grey Wolf

Gone Fishin'
As a guy working on Alternate History Imperial China TL, what did you all imagined the impacts of more outward-looking and industrialised China in the 19th century on East Asia and South-East Asia?

Whether China is under Qing or any other ruling dynasties of China, most probably Han Chinese. I’d imagined the impact will be huge but unsure of specific consequences of it.
IMHO it depends on WHEN China becomes this

Japan is an example - does China follow a roughly analogous path, so that by the 1890s China is its equal?

Or are we somehow positing that China achieves this before Japan, and what? By a completely independent process than the Europeans? Or by an earlier opening up, an ATL emperor who imports experts?
 
Or are we somehow positing that China achieves this before Japan, and what? By a completely independent process than the Europeans? Or by an earlier opening up, an ATL emperor who imports experts?
China could have had its own independent industrial revolution, if Confucius had had a much more positive opinion of merchants and the Black Death had hit the Empire at least as bad as it did Europe.
 
IMHO it depends on WHEN China becomes this

Japan is an example - does China follow a roughly analogous path, so that by the 1890s China is its equal?

Or are we somehow positing that China achieves this before Japan, and what? By a completely independent process than the Europeans? Or by an earlier opening up, an ATL emperor who imports experts?
Truth be told, it's hard to tell because we only have Meiji Japan as prime example of East Asian country modernizing itself. Other than that, China doesn't have much incentives for Industrial Revolution in spite of the fact China itself is rich in all kinds of resources and fulfilled the prerequisites for industrialization more so than Japan. The only problem is its' leadership (particularly the Qing Court) felt little need to 'industrialise' since China is the powerful nation who dominated the Orient for long time and stuck in the mindset as 'Centre of the Universe' until the Western powers comes knocking on their doors. Bear in mind, Qing is ruled by ethnic Manchu elite and tries to stick close to Chinese Confucian ideals to appease the Han Chinese-majority. On other hand, I'm pretty sure the Han Chinese-led dynasty might done the same thing as the Manchus but they probably have better chances of smooth modernization than the Manchu elite.

I'd say let's go with the more realistic and more believable scenario. I'm thinking an earlier opening up of China to the world, free trade or otherwise, an ATL emperor who imports experts.

However...
China could have had its own independent industrial revolution, if Confucius had had a much more positive opinion of merchants and the Black Death had hit the Empire at least as bad as it did Europe.
Like he says, Confucian ideals seems to have strong biases against merchants. But there're cases of Confucianists dealing in trade and have compromises around it.
 
Anybody familiar with crusader burial customs? Im planning out a fic and one of the characters, a French Viscount, dies during the third crusade. Would his body be returned to France or buried in tbe holy land?
 
Anybody familiar with crusader burial customs? Im planning out a fic and one of the characters, a French Viscount, dies during the third crusade. Would his body be returned to France or buried in tbe holy land?
Most crusaders were buried where they died, as it was difficult and expensive to prepare a body and then transport it. It could be done for kings and sometimes for other powerful nobles (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_IX_of_France#Death_and_legacy) but for others it wasn't normally worth it. Even for kings it didn't always work (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_I,_Holy_Roman_Emperor#Death_and_burials). There are a number of 'crusader cemeteries' in the Middle East (for one example, see here: https://news.cnrs.fr/articles/an-ancient-crusader-cemetery).
So what you do with your character is up to you. You could have his bones transported back, or a casket with his heart in it, or something like that. Or just have him buried in situ.
 
While I was working on my Chinese TL where my version of Imperial China which successfully industrializes itself in 19th century and survives to modern-day. How would an early industrialized China would affect on Middle-East, particularly Iran or westerners know it as Persia?
 
It is often the case that people on this forum have miscellaneous or frivolous questions that could be easily answered by the many experts on this forum but are difficult to find the answer to on Google Scholar/Books or Wikipedia because they don't often deal in alternatives.

There are other cases where people have miscellaneous or frivolous scenarios or challenges that they want to share about an idea they encountered that could perhaps provoke inspiration in other users but isn't deserving enough to be posted as a thread on its own.

These issues have been addressed in the Shared Worlds and ASB forums but haven't been dealt with here.

This thread is intended to be a resource for those with questions about a timeline they want to construct which are minor and undeserving of their own thread, and a place to share ideas that people don't have time, skill or knowledge to write themselves.
Could a Mongol lead HRE had been possible ? Maybe another successul Mongol conquest into the heart if Europe with kind of a Mongol HRE tributary Muscowite Golden Horde like relationship. A step further maybe Emperors for election handpicked by the Mongol itself or even Christianized Emoeror taking leading role.
 
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