Miscellaneous <1900 (Alternate) History Thread

what if during in american civil war, some confederates try to contact to the british empire for help at exchange for british protectorate?
Some likely did IOTL, but if they did or didnt the reaction would be about the same. Some variation of, "do you speak for your government? No? Then what are you doing here, even if we wanted to almost certainly go to war with our largest trading partner to help you hillbillys we would need some actually sanctioned government representatives to deal with."
 
Some likely did IOTL, but if they did or didnt the reaction would be about the same. Some variation of, "do you speak for your government? No? Then what are you doing here, even if we wanted to almost certainly go to war with our largest trading partner to help you hillbillys we would need some actually sanctioned government representatives to deal with."

One the things all those who try to save the CSA via British intervention miss is despite all their supposed Confederate sympathy, the British REALLY weren't keen on the idea of a shooting war with the US. If you look beneath the very superficial surface, it's kind of obvious why. The British government was well aware duking it out with your top trading partner was a very bad idea (pretty US was top at that time, if not damn near top). It would have been very expensive, result in a lot of long term economic damage, brought virtually no significant benefits if the won and the potential consequence of defeat were the loss of Canada, the West Indies and exclusion from South American markets. Just no way Palmerston could ever make those numbers stack up. Replace Palmerston with anyone else, and they won't be able to either.

I honestly believe getting a war between Britain and the US during the ACW borders on ASB territory, when it was physically theoretically possible (pre Gettysburg), there was not only no will on either side for a war, both actively wanted to avoid it. Just as Palmerston was well aware of the realities of war with the US, Lincoln was equally aware of the realities of war with the British. Very simply put, taking on the world's largest economic power whilst simultaneously struggling to deal with an active rebellion of one third of your population, is frankly sheer madness, especially those rebels are equally as well trained as your army and almost as well equipped (as they were in the first half of the war). Lincoln was not insane. Yes by 1863, the situation had changed and the likely outcome was pretty clear. But still, war with Britain wasn't worth the risk.

You look at the high point for potential British intervention (just before Antietam), all the British were suggesting was attempting mediation, possibly in conjunction with the French. Recognition of the Confederacy was seen as a stick to prod the Union into negotiations, nothing more. Even with the Trent Affair, beloved of the "save the south" camp, you really can't get a war. You can make the crisis worse, possibly a lot worse, but if push comes to shove, Lincoln will back down. The war was going badly with the CSA looking on course for victory. Lincoln and his cabinet were acutely aware, under those circumstances war with Britain had to be avoided. Yes, the humiliation of him backing down almost certainly would have serious consequences later on. But at the time, he eventually would have backed down.
 
What if all the anti-Communist, pro-Soviet rebellions in the USSR post-Polish-Soviet war actually managed to cause an anti-Bolshevik revolution?
 
How much would England not getting involved in the Italian wars change the results?
It would affect the third one the most, since in OTL Louis XII was surrounded on all sides by 1513. Without England getting involved he can focus his attention on fighting the Swiss, Austrians and Spaniards in the South, which could lead to a better (or possibly) worse outcome for him.
 
What if Pyrrhus had traveled back to Macedonia to take advantage of the chaos of the Gallic invasion and the death of Ptolemy Ceraunus instead of going to Sicily to fight the Carthaginians?
 
What If when the dynamo was invented someone got the idea to hook one to a windmill for semi-continuous operation?

Then when the electrical grids where being formed in the late 19thC these windmills became part of the operating grid to generate power?
 

Bytor

Monthly Donor
How long could Charles XII of Sweden have lived if he hadn't died during the Great Northern War?
We don't rightly know since he was only 36 when he did die and was seemingly in very good health (for the times, at least). His father died of abdominal cancer but his paternal grandfather died of pneumonia. His mother died of seemingly ongoing childbirth complications and his maternal grandfather lived to age 60. So overall it doesn't really seem like there was something like haemophilia in the Romanovs, or specific cancers like in Prussia, or just general inbreeding like the Habsburgs that would have been highly likely to affect him. He could easily have lived to the 1740s, I think, perhaps even thr 1750s, if he can be stopped in continuing to lead from the front lines in war.
 
In January 1761, Archduke Karl Josef of Austria, the second son of Franz I and Maria Theresia, died of smallpox. He was said to be charming, extroverted, intelligent, and open-minded, and was the favorite son of his parents. He was well respected and liked by his siblings (quite a feat) and the court. Supposedly Karl Josef considered himself more appropriate to inherit than his elder brother, OTL Josef II, and even said he meant to contend with his brother for the Imperial crown.

So let's give Karl Josef his desire. It's January 1761, and a child of Franz I and Maria Theresia dies of smallpox: their eldest son, Josef. Karl Josef is now the heir to the Habsburgs. What could happen? What would happen? What should happen?

Random Questions:
  • Isabella of Parma is widowed after four months of marriage. Does she make a second marriage? If so, with who? Does she escape to a nunnery?
  • Karl Josef's bride:
    • Maria Kunigunde of Saxony (1740)
      • Five years older
      • Granddaughter of Josef I via her mother
      • Sister to the Queen of Spain
    • Maria Josefa of Spain (1744)
      • One year older
      • Great-granddaughter of Josef I via her mother, great-granddaughter of le Grand Dauphin via her father
    • Maria Luisa of Spain (1745)
      • Same age
      • OTL married his brother Leopold; might still marry him here.
      • Younger sister of above
    • Benedita of Portugal (1746)
      • One year younger
      • OTL was considered as a bride for his brother Josef II after the death of his first wife
      • Great-granddaughter of le Grand Dauphin via her mother, great-granddaughter of Leopold I via her father, niece of the King of Spain via her mother
    • Maria Luisa of Parma (1751)
      • Six years younger
      • Younger sister of Isabella of Parma, wife of Josef II
      • Granddaughter of Felipe V of Spain and Louis XV of France
  • Archduchess Maria Elisabeth marrying the Duke of Chablais or Louis XV?
    • There was an option for Maria Elisabeth to marry his cousin Benedetto of Savoy, the Duke of Chablais, around 1765 / 1766 but her brother Josef II refused to allow it as he did not consider it politically significant enough, even though Maria Elisabeth declared herself very willing to enter the marriage. Maybe Karl Josef would be more willing to let his sister, considered late in age to be unmarried, marry their cousin?
    • In 1768, there was a proposal to marry Maria Elisabeth to Louis XV and her sister Maria Antonia to his heir the Dauphin as a double marriage alliance, which would ensure two Austrian queens of France in a row. The negotiations were almost complete and the marriage contract was prepared when Maria Elisabeth fell ill with smallpox. She survived but was horribly scarred and the matter of the marriage was dropped. This is easy to butterfly away.
  • Maria Johanna surviving // Maria Josefa surviving
    • One or both surviving the smallpox that ultimately killed them and going on to marry their betrothed, Ferdinand of Naples and Sicily
  • Marriages to Spain or Portugal?
    • If Maria Johanna or Maria Josefa marries Ferdinand of the Two Sicilies, could Maria Carolina marry a surviving Louis Joseph of France and Maria Antonia marry somewhere else - Bavaria or Saxony, or Spain if Maria Luisa of Parma marries Karl Josef?
Open to any ideas, suggestions, theories, etc!

@Kellan Sullivan @isabella @WillVictoria @VVD0D95 @FalconHonour
 
In January 1761, Archduke Karl Josef of Austria, the second son of Franz I and Maria Theresia, died of smallpox. He was said to be charming, extroverted, intelligent, and open-minded, and was the favorite son of his parents. He was well respected and liked by his siblings (quite a feat) and the court. Supposedly Karl Josef considered himself more appropriate to inherit than his elder brother, OTL Josef II, and even said he meant to contend with his brother for the Imperial crown.

So let's give Karl Josef his desire. It's January 1761, and a child of Franz I and Maria Theresia dies of smallpox: their eldest son, Josef. Karl Josef is now the heir to the Habsburgs. What could happen? What would happen? What should happen?

Random Questions:
  • Isabella of Parma is widowed after four months of marriage. Does she make a second marriage? If so, with who? Does she escape to a nunnery?
  • Karl Josef's bride:
    • Maria Kunigunde of Saxony (1740)
      • Five years older
      • Granddaughter of Josef I via her mother
      • Sister to the Queen of Spain
    • Maria Josefa of Spain (1744)
      • One year older
      • Great-granddaughter of Josef I via her mother, great-granddaughter of le Grand Dauphin via her father
    • Maria Luisa of Spain (1745)
      • Same age
      • OTL married his brother Leopold; might still marry him here.
      • Younger sister of above
    • Benedita of Portugal (1746)
      • One year younger
      • OTL was considered as a bride for his brother Josef II after the death of his first wife
      • Great-granddaughter of le Grand Dauphin via her mother, great-granddaughter of Leopold I via her father, niece of the King of Spain via her mother
    • Maria Luisa of Parma (1751)
      • Six years younger
      • Younger sister of Isabella of Parma, wife of Josef II
      • Granddaughter of Felipe V of Spain and Louis XV of France
  • Archduchess Maria Elisabeth marrying the Duke of Chablais or Louis XV?
    • There was an option for Maria Elisabeth to marry his cousin Benedetto of Savoy, the Duke of Chablais, around 1765 / 1766 but her brother Josef II refused to allow it as he did not consider it politically significant enough, even though Maria Elisabeth declared herself very willing to enter the marriage. Maybe Karl Josef would be more willing to let his sister, considered late in age to be unmarried, marry their cousin?
    • In 1768, there was a proposal to marry Maria Elisabeth to Louis XV and her sister Maria Antonia to his heir the Dauphin as a double marriage alliance, which would ensure two Austrian queens of France in a row. The negotiations were almost complete and the marriage contract was prepared when Maria Elisabeth fell ill with smallpox. She survived but was horribly scarred and the matter of the marriage was dropped. This is easy to butterfly away.
  • Maria Johanna surviving // Maria Josefa surviving
    • One or both surviving the smallpox that ultimately killed them and going on to marry their betrothed, Ferdinand of Naples and Sicily
  • Marriages to Spain or Portugal?
    • If Maria Johanna or Maria Josefa marries Ferdinand of the Two Sicilies, could Maria Carolina marry a surviving Louis Joseph of France and Maria Antonia marry somewhere else - Bavaria or Saxony, or Spain if Maria Luisa of Parma marries Karl Josef?
Open to any ideas, suggestions, theories, etc!

@Kellan Sullivan @isabella @WillVictoria @VVD0D95 @FalconHonour
I think and @Kellan Sullivan can correct me if I’m wrong, but before he died, there was talk of Karl marryinf Maria Luisa of Spain. So if he survives here, 5en I could see that marriage going through.Chablais marrying Maria elisabeth would be intriguing I think. Maria Josef ro Ferdinand wouls also be intriguinf I think.
 
I think and @Kellan Sullivan can correct me if I’m wrong, but before he died, there was talk of Karl marryinf Maria Luisa of Spain. So if he survives here, 5en I could see that marriage going through.Chablais marrying Maria elisabeth would be intriguing I think. Maria Josef ro Ferdinand wouls also be intriguinf I think.
Maria Luisa was an excellent Grand Duchess and Empress OTL, so I'm sure she'd be one here. Little sad to see her and Leo split up - they're some of my favorites. Maybe with Maria Luisa married to Karl Josef, Leopold could marry Benedita of Portugal (I truly believe she can do better than marrying her fifteen years younger nephew and I will not be convinced otherwise).

I like Maria Elisabeth to Chablais, even if it's not a great dynastic match :) I like her to Louis XV for other reasons lol
 
Last edited:
In January 1761, Archduke Karl Josef of Austria, the second son of Franz I and Maria Theresia, died of smallpox. He was said to be charming, extroverted, intelligent, and open-minded, and was the favorite son of his parents. He was well respected and liked by his siblings (quite a feat) and the court. Supposedly Karl Josef considered himself more appropriate to inherit than his elder brother, OTL Josef II, and even said he meant to contend with his brother for the Imperial crown.

So let's give Karl Josef his desire. It's January 1761, and a child of Franz I and Maria Theresia dies of smallpox: their eldest son, Josef. Karl Josef is now the heir to the Habsburgs. What could happen? What would happen? What should happen?

Random Questions:
  • Isabella of Parma is widowed after four months of marriage. Does she make a second marriage? If so, with who? Does she escape to a nunnery?
  • Karl Josef's bride:
    • Maria Kunigunde of Saxony (1740)
      • Five years older
      • Granddaughter of Josef I via her mother
      • Sister to the Queen of Spain
    • Maria Josefa of Spain (1744)
      • One year older
      • Great-granddaughter of Josef I via her mother, great-granddaughter of le Grand Dauphin via her father
    • Maria Luisa of Spain (1745)
      • Same age
      • OTL married his brother Leopold; might still marry him here.
      • Younger sister of above
    • Benedita of Portugal (1746)
      • One year younger
      • OTL was considered as a bride for his brother Josef II after the death of his first wife
      • Great-granddaughter of le Grand Dauphin via her mother, great-granddaughter of Leopold I via her father, niece of the King of Spain via her mother
    • Maria Luisa of Parma (1751)
      • Six years younger
      • Younger sister of Isabella of Parma, wife of Josef II
      • Granddaughter of Felipe V of Spain and Louis XV of France
  • Archduchess Maria Elisabeth marrying the Duke of Chablais or Louis XV?
    • There was an option for Maria Elisabeth to marry his cousin Benedetto of Savoy, the Duke of Chablais, around 1765 / 1766 but her brother Josef II refused to allow it as he did not consider it politically significant enough, even though Maria Elisabeth declared herself very willing to enter the marriage. Maybe Karl Josef would be more willing to let his sister, considered late in age to be unmarried, marry their cousin?
    • In 1768, there was a proposal to marry Maria Elisabeth to Louis XV and her sister Maria Antonia to his heir the Dauphin as a double marriage alliance, which would ensure two Austrian queens of France in a row. The negotiations were almost complete and the marriage contract was prepared when Maria Elisabeth fell ill with smallpox. She survived but was horribly scarred and the matter of the marriage was dropped. This is easy to butterfly away.
  • Maria Johanna surviving // Maria Josefa surviving
    • One or both surviving the smallpox that ultimately killed them and going on to marry their betrothed, Ferdinand of Naples and Sicily
  • Marriages to Spain or Portugal?
    • If Maria Johanna or Maria Josefa marries Ferdinand of the Two Sicilies, could Maria Carolina marry a surviving Louis Joseph of France and Maria Antonia marry somewhere else - Bavaria or Saxony, or Spain if Maria Luisa of Parma marries Karl Josef?
Open to any ideas, suggestions, theories, etc!

@Kellan Sullivan @isabella @WillVictoria @VVD0D95 @FalconHonour
Karl was engaged to Maria Luisa of Spain and Leopold (who was not to inherit Tuscany at that point) to Maria Beatrice d’Este, so I wonder how things would move in the Italian scenario.

Antonia would still be the one destinate to France while Carolina could end in Parma in place of Amalia.
 
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